Ep. 140: Making the Case for Mock Trials and Sniff N' Go's

Particularly for those teams interested in competing in Scent Work trials, ensuring they and their dogs are ready is an important part of the process. Can they perform in a novel environment and under pressure? This is where mock trials and Sniff N' Go events come into play. Essential information gathering tools, participating in these events should be part of the process before a team steps to the line on trial day.

Join us for this discussion with Lori Timberlake of Do Over Dog Training to learn more about the mock trials and Sniff N’ Gos, why they can be so incredibly helpful, what to look for, how to best use them and why instructors and clubs should work to add more of them to the calendar.

Speakers

Lori Timberlake and Dianna L. Santos

RECOMMENDED RESOURCES

• How to Run CSW Test Prep Classes & Mock ORT/Trials Webinar
• NACSW Trial Experience Webinar Series: Part 1 (ORT - NW3)
• NACSW Trial Experience Webinar Series: Part 2 (Element Specialty Trials)
• NACSW Trial Experience Webinar Series: Part 3 (Elite, Elite Premier and Summit)
• C-WAGS Rally, Obedience & Games Class Set-Up & Instructor Tips Webinar
• Getting Started with C-WAGS Scent Detection Webinar
• Let's Chat: Training and Learning About Elsa Livestream

TRANSCRIPT

Dianna L. Santos (00:01):
Welcome to the All About Scent Work podcast. In this podcast, we talk about all things Scent Work that can include training tips, a behind scenes look at what your instructor or trial official is going through and much more. In this episode, I have the distinct privilege of speaking to Lori Timberlake of Do Over Dog Training, all about why we should be participating in mock trials and sniff and goes. So before we start diving into the episode itself, let me do a very quick introduction of myself. My name is Dianna Santos. I'm the Owner and Lead Instructor of Scent Work University. This is an online dog training platform where we provide online courses, seminars, webinars, ebooks, virtual events, video reviews, Zoom consultations, free training tips, live streams, and so much more. And everything is all focusing on Sent Work. So regardless of where you are in your sniffing journey, you're just getting started, you're looking to develop some more advanced skills, you're interested in trialing, or you're competing even at the upper levels, we likely have a training solution for you.

(01:02):
So know that you know a little bit more about me, let's dive into the episode itself.

(01:09):
So in this episode, I have the distinct privilege of speaking to Lori Timberlake of Do Over Dog Training, all about why we should be participating in mock trials and Sniff N' Go's. Let's have a listen to that conversation. So we are delighted once again to be talking to Lori Timberlake of Do Over Dog Training. Lori is awesome. As she reached out to me and she wanted to talk about ways that we can maybe better make decisions regarding mock trials and stiffen goes and how we can use them. Very exciting stuff. So Ms. Lori, could you maybe tell people what exactly a mock trial or a Sniff N' Go is? Because I'm sure some of them are like, "I don't even know what that is.

Lori Timberlake (01:47):
Sure. And I think people use different names for what the event is. Personally, I think of a mock trial, something that's going to kind of mirror a trial, get as close to a trial as you can get, level appropriate hides. Not always exactly depending on the site, but I think of a mock trial like a trial, but mock. And I think of sniff and goes, sniff throughs, all those other kinds of events, whatever you may call them. Things that you come through, there might be lots of hides, there might be a theme, there might be, but it's not like maybe mimicking a certain type of trial. So we're doing a Valentine's sniff through coming up and it's going to be all containers. And we're doing a St. Patrick's one, which is almost like zone training or a don't go back search where if you find them all in the first one, then you can go to the next one and then you can go to the last one and that's where the prize is.

(02:45):
I mean, that's kind of how we differentiate them. Other people may do them differently, but no matter what, it's a place where you go that is not your class, that you're training something that will help you towards going to a trial.

Dianna L. Santos (02:57):
So are the hides typically for both of these kind of events blind to the person or can it all depend on who's hosting it and what it's for?

Lori Timberlake (03:05):
Yeah. I mean, definitely who's hosting and what it's for. What we tend to do, it's mostly blind. If we have prizes involved, we will tell people, ask, ask for information, ask for coaching, ask for help, ask where the hides are, and then you're just not in it for the prize. But who cares about the prize? The real thing should be is testing our training. So the same thing with our mock trials. I just put out an email yesterday about when I'm hosting this weekend and I let them know it's blind. I'm going to give you the information at the beginning and you have a certain amount of time, but if you feel like you need help, if you're struggling, if I see you're struggling, I'm going to help you so that we can make it a positive event. I don't want anybody leaving saying, "Gosh, I went there and I didn't find a single hide and that sucked.

(03:52):
And now I'm totally not prepared for my trial and I'm never doing this work again."That's not what I want people to get out of our mock trial sniff and go type things. I want there to be help if they need it, but for those that just want that trial-like experience to kind of see where they're at, then we do make it blind and we don't give a lot of information. I always do a debrief at the end so everybody knows what the odor ... It's just like a real trial. What was the odor doing? Where were the hides in case they didn't know by the end? So we try to give a lot of information. So it really depends on who's coming, if they want to know where the hides are or not.

Dianna L. Santos (04:26):
Okay. And then as far as a differentiation between the two types, are mock trials typically longer, more involved, you have more searches that you're going to tackle and then sniff throughs or sniff and goes are maybe more concentrated with a particular element, maybe a shorter, maybe it's like an hour or so. Is that a fair characterization or does it really depend?

Lori Timberlake (04:51):
I mean, it kind of depends, but that's a fair ... Usually for our sniffing goes, it's come to your run and go. Have a nice day. Where the mock trials, you're parked, you're there, you're waiting for a lot of people to go. We might do a little something at the end, but yeah, I think what you said explains it very clearly.

Dianna L. Santos (05:10):
Okay. So then as far as trying to figure out if I've never done anything like this before, should I maybe do a sniff and go first and then do a mock trial? Would that be a good idea? Or what would be the decision process that you would recommend for clients as far as what type of event they should look for first and why and when?

Lori Timberlake (05:31):
Yeah. And again, because of course my answer is always going to be it depends because some of our sniff throughs like this, one of my instructors is doing it. I can't remember what she called it. Luck, I don't know, find the pot of goal. I don't know. It's the one with several different rooms and that is going to be more advanced, but it's going to be broken down. And she even, in her advertising, we don't want anybody to come not get the first room and then they're done. So we would coach, but that is something probably, even though it's a sniff, I'm using my air quotes, a sniff and go type event, it's probably for more advanced teams, more like elite teams and NW3 teams with that unknown number where the Valentine's one is just a whole bunch of containers and find what you can find.

(06:17):
And that would be great for someone just starting out. Even if there's, I don't know, six containers out and they find too, like, yay, for a brand new person, you came into a new space, you found some odor, you had a good event and you left. Where sometimes with the mock trials, like we're doing an L1C and L1I, that might be really good for a new person to come to, even though it's more trial-like, but it's going to be more straightforward than some of our themed events, if that makes sense. I think it really depends on what the event is and reading the description and maybe reach ... And I keep saying me, us, lots of other people do these. So reach out and ask, what's involved? What kind of site is this? Is this appropriate for my dog before you plan your whole day and go to it?

(07:02):
I think that's the really important thing is just what kind of event is it? Because sometimes our mock trials are a little bit more appropriate for new people than some of our sniff throughs.

Dianna L. Santos (07:13):
Okay. And then as far as some things that you've seen out, because again, you've been involved in Nose Work forever. As far as some of the types of events that you've noticed over the years, are they all the kind of setup that you're talking about where I learn about the event, I sign up for the event, I go to the event, there are people there and they are available to provide coaching and feedback and they will kind of help walk me through to ensure that I'm successful. Or are there other types of events where the searches are kind of set up and you just kind of go, you tackle it with your dog, you see if your dog finds them and you just leave. So is there a difference as far as a range of what these possibly could be and are there certain things that people should look for and how the event is maybe advertised to figure out if this is something that they should be interested in or not?

Lori Timberlake (08:02):
Yeah, absolutely. And like I said, if it's not clearly described, then reach out. And if you're not getting a good answer, then maybe that is your answer. I recently went to one and it was a good experience, but yeah, there was no information, there was no coaching, there was no, "Well, the reason this happened was because of ... " She did do a debrief and it showed where all the hides were at the end, but yeah, it wasn't a super informative one. And weather was also horrible. So it was like, "Get in and get out, go home." I wonder if weather was better if they would've given a little bit more information. But for me, because I can't always, especially on the weekends, I'm always gone. So for me, it was a great experience just going somewhere new with someone else setting the hides and I didn't really care what information.

(08:50):
I mean, I have questions now, but I could always still reach out to them, I'm sure, and they would let me know what happened, but I'm too busy. So I'm just moving on with my life. But yeah, I mean, that's a good indicator there. If the description isn't really clear and you're reaching out and they're not answering you, then maybe that isn't one to go to, because maybe that is just something maybe for their students marketed towards their students and they all know the deal or whatever the case may be, right? But yeah, I've seen every variation. I've traveled hours to go to mock truck because back in the day, there wasn't something every weekend like there is now. And I drove all the way to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, which is probably, it was about four hours from where I lived at the time for a mock ORT.

(09:39):
And they were like, "Really?" And I said, "Yeah, because I don't know anything about this. And how am I going to learn unless I at least do a mock one first?" And I remember it was February, it was freezing, the roads were bad, but I'm like, "I have to know. I have to get this information." So dedication, I guess. But yeah, they're all a little different. I drove down to Pittsburgh when the elements were coming out to do an element sniff and go just to kind of see what do I ... I don't know what these are about yet. I want to learn about them. And I just totally went off track there. I don't know if I even answered your question, but yes, I think they vary across the board and the best way to do it is to reach out and get information if it's not there for you.

Dianna L. Santos (10:19):
Okay. And then as far as when is it that people should start considering maybe attending a sniff and go or a mock trial? Is this for something that, okay, I'm getting ready to trial, I'm already trialing, or, "Well, I just started doing set work yesterday, but I'm really excited about it and I want to be able to learn more." Who are these really for?

Lori Timberlake (10:40):
Yeah. So I would say, I mean, the reason we do so many of them and why there's so many in our area right now, especially right now, there's not a lot of trials going on. So it's really for trial prep. It is the majority, but we do them through ... Some of these fun ones, they're open to everybody and we'll pair the hides. I did one that was a pretty big event. It was at an amusement park and it was like Elite kind of hides and somebody brand new shook up and we were like, "Okay, well, I'm glad you came. We're just going to put food by these and we kind of helped her out and then she got really interested and I think she started Nose Works since then." So I mean, it can happen, but yeah, I would reach out if you're brand new and say, "Is this appropriate for me?

(11:23):
" I mean, I think if you're brand new, going to class, training at home, I don't think you need to go out to these right away, maybe go watch one and go see what do they do with these things, but it might overface your dog a little bit if you just show up and you just started sent work yesterday.

Dianna L. Santos (11:40):
Okay. And then for the people who are maybe closer to the getting ready to trial, what are some of the things they should consider as far as like, "Well, when should I be going to one of these things? If I know that a trial is coming up on X date, when should I be attending these other things as far as proximity to my actual trial?"

Lori Timberlake (11:59):
Yeah, so this can be a little difficult. I always try to book my mock ORTs, my mock trials at least a few weeks before a trial because I don't want someone to come the week before and they miss something and then they're like, "Oh my God, we're terrible. Forget it. We're out. We're out. We're not doing this. Pull me out of the trial tomorrow." So at least if you do it a few weeks before, I mean, a few months before would be great. I mean, when are they available, right?

(12:29):
But if you can do it a month or two ahead of time, you can see where your weaknesses are, what you need to work on and work on. I mean, that's the point of a mock trial. Where do we still need to train before we go into the real trial? So doing them way advance is even better because then you can train, but everybody, they've got to enter the trials the day after they get their ORTs know how that goes. So there's not always time for that training ahead of time. But yeah, even if you don't have a trial coming up really soon and you see one of these mock trials pop up, that would be the time to do it is a few months ahead of time so you know where you're at and you can work on things before you actually go to a trial.

Dianna L. Santos (13:11):
So as far as trying to figure out what it is that the goal is when we're trying to attend some of these things. So you're mentioning you're trying to look for holes inside your training, trying to figure out what you may need to work on, maybe even what is working and is doing well. But are there some other things as far as reasons why you would want to go to one of these things and people are like, "Well, I'm going to class and I'm practicing on my own." Isn't that enough?

Lori Timberlake (13:36):
I know there's so many things that we just cannot do in class and that is really hard even to do on our own. So one, blind hides. I like to do a lot of ... I don't even have a choice. The majority of my training is knowing where the hides are because I'm the one sending them, which is good because then we can just relax and read our dogs as they're finding these hides. But one of my goals is, can my dog find a hide that somebody else set? Because they might set it a little differently. They might do something that I don't normally do. Can they go into a new place? How often, and I know a lot of people are like, "Well, we go to Lowe's, but we go there every week." So it's not a new place anymore if you go there every week.

(14:17):
Sometimes people come to a trial and had no idea that their dog had an issue with shiny floors. So maybe that's something that you could have discovered in a mock trial ahead of time like, "Oh, I didn't even know this was an issue because my training center has mats and my home has carpet. And the other place where we go has concrete, but we've never been on a shiny floor before." So things like that, not even just new environment, but things in the environment that maybe we've not practiced in the past and didn't even know was an issue until we got there. I have a whole list.

(14:51):
Waiting in the car. I mean, how often, I mean, if you live in a nicer area like California, you can crate your dog in the car during class and they can come back and forth. Here in Buffalo, we bring them in and have them crate. And still, class is only an hour long and you're getting out several times in and out, but how often does your dog just sit in the car and wait for an hour or two hours before they actually go to a trial? That's one of the biggest things that floors people that they didn't, they're like, "I didn't know we'd be in the car that long." And so doing that in a mock trial, you can figure out, is my dog cool with it? Are they not cool with it? Do they need me to stay in the car with them? Do they prefer to just nap while I go visit my friends?

(15:34):
Is there something I could do to make them more comfortable in the car? Is my car warm enough? Is my car cold enough? All these things that you probably never thought of if you're new to trialing, you can figure out in a mock trial. And then I have coaching on here and I think it just depends, that's another one of these, it depends things. Some places offer coaching, some don't. One thing that I never want to do when people from other places come to me, I don't say, "Why do you do it that way? You should do it this way. This is the way I train it. " And I don't want any of my students ... So getting constructive feedback is one thing, but you're doing it wrong is something else. And then it makes people question everything and they come back and they're like, "We've been doing it all wrong.

(16:18):
That's what they told me when I went to X, Y, Z place." But sometimes they do pick up something from someone else that I'm like, "Oh, that is really good that they saw that because I see you every week and sometimes I don't notice these things. Sometimes when I video my classes, I catch things in video that I never ... I'm like, wow, I never even realized they did that when I'm watching them in class every week."

(16:39):
So places that offer coaching can be a real positive as long as they're being constructive and not just, "You're doing it wrong, you should take classes here." That may not be super helpful. And I'm really careful unless somebody really asks me a question. I don't like to give a whole ... Not because I'm not like I'm hoarding all my information, but I don't want to give someone information that's different than what their instructor is telling them unless they're really asking me or they really have a problem or whatever reason, or I know their instructor and it's all cool. Just have your goals. Maybe your goal is ... So the recent one I went to, my dog is training for NW1 and I knew that this was unknown number. And I went in and I'm like, "You know what? As long as she finds one, we passed.

(17:27):
We are good." There were a lot more there. She did very well. She found five in one search, a bunch in the other search. I could have just asked one in and said, "Just tell me where one is or tell me once I found one and then we're going to call it a day and move on. " We train a little higher than what we're getting ready to trial for. So I was fine doing the unknown number because as a handler, I've done that before. If you're brand new, you don't want to go into an unknown hide search if you've ever done that before. But for me, even though my dog's new, I'm a more experienced handler, so I didn't have a problem with that. But thinking of those things too, what is my goal? What do I want to get out of this? Maybe just going in, stepping on the shiny floor, having a treat and leaving is what your goal is.

(18:10):
And that's perfectly fine too.

Dianna L. Santos (18:13):
Just a couple things I would just want to tease out a little bit more that I think are just amazing that you brought out. So one is the thing about the coaching. Would it be helpful for people when also not just when they're going to these mock events, but when they are actually going to formal ones, to understand that that person is only seeing you for a split second in time and they may not have all of the background information that you and your instructor have built up in that hopefully really solid relationship you have with them because they're part of your team. But that's something else to keep in mind that it's not that the person who is providing you with that feedback, "Oh, they're just so mean." They're just seeing you for that split second in time, but that you should be setting your expectations that they don't have all of the background that you and your instructor have worked through to get to that point.

Lori Timberlake (19:01):
Absolutely. And another thing I'll add too, and I've been trying to really push this lately because I'm at trials just about every weekend, is that even the judges that are only seeing you, this is the first time they're seeing you, they don't know anything about you. But also, you are not the normal person that you are when you are at a trial. You do stupid things. And I'm teasing, but we are not who we are when we're in training, when we're with our instructors, when we're comfortable, we act differently. So it really bothers me when the judge is like, "Oh, I finally called it. " Or all the volunteers are like, "Why aren't I calling it? That took forever." Because you're a different person when the nerves are there and it's a trial situation and you might not call something as fast, even though it's clear as day and you go back and you watch your video and you're like, "Oh my God, what was I doing?" You were in a trial is what you were doing.

(20:03):
So even though that has nothing to do with the whole knock trial thing we're talking about, I think that's an important thing to keep in mind is that no matter how cool you think you are, no matter how calm, no matter ... I've done all the mental management, I'm not nervous at all, you are a different person when you're trialing than when you're training. So that's important too. So don't ... Yeah, if you get a weird comment from a judge or a volunteer, and I hope that doesn't happen, take that with a grain of salt. They are only seeing you at that moment and you were that person at that moment and that's ... Listen to your instructor, go talk to your instructor because that's who you work with all the time.

Dianna L. Santos (20:38):
Perfect. And I think that's also a really helpful thing for people to keep in mind when we're talking about the mock trials and the Stifengos is that you may think, "Oh yeah, it's not real, so I'll be fine." You'd be surprised you may show up at this event and you may be working with people that you don't know, meaning you have gone to a different location, now these are people who are officiating this mock event that you don't know, you're not familiar with. There may be a whole bunch of spectators or other competitors and people that you're like, "Well, who are all of you? " And all of a sudden, your little heart goes pita pattern and your blood pressure starts going up and you get the butterflies in your tongue. You're like, "Wait a minute, are these nerves?" Yes, yes, they are. So I think it's a good thing, and maybe you can speak to this, as far as recognizing just how nervous you may get and the kinds of things you may want to put into place to ensure that you don't get that nervous at a real event.

(21:35):
Can you talk about that a little bit?

Lori Timberlake (21:36):
Oh, I can talk from personal experience because ... And I will say that when I was trialing with Daisy, especially once we got past NW3, I mean, I was cool as a cucumber. I'm like, "Whatever happens, happens," because I was more comfortable. I mean, we were a really good team at that point. Well, if we do good, we do bad, whatever. And I'm not going to say I never got nervous, but I didn't get that nervous. Here I am with a new dog. I'm like, "I don't know if I can even read her because everything we do is just me setting the hides. We're in a new place. There's another instructor from the area doing this. Half of my students are here. I was quite nervous." And I did think to myself, because I'm going to enter her in some trials, some ESTs and an NW1 this spring, at least that's the plan.

(22:27):
And I have to tell myself, "Your students are going to be there, your volunteers, all these people you work with, you're going to know everybody there, you got to calm down a little bit." I mean, I wasn't like a basket case or anything, but it surprised me how nervous I was. So yeah, and if I didn't do that, if I just said, "I don't need these mock trials, we can do it all ourselves," I wouldn't have had that feeling and I wouldn't have known that that's something I need to think about. So whatever that may be, having some kind of game plan of how can I chill myself out a little bit and not get so inside my head at the mock trial so that will help me when I go to the actual trial.

Dianna L. Santos (23:07):
Perfect. And I think that's the main thing is that as instructors, people have probably heard all of us say so many times, "If you can go to a mock trial or stiff and go, please make sure that you do. " And they're like, "Ah, you just want me to spend more of my money because apparently this is what you want me to do. " It's like, no, actually it's because there are such valuable tools so that you can get all of this information that you can have that is actionable before you go to the real trial. That's really the point is that you're able to have all these different experiences that you may not be able to have when you're training, whether on your own or a class. Again, a lot of the examples that Lori gave already are just so good, such as even the flooring.

(23:49):
You just may not recognize or realize, "Wow, I've never been on this kind of floor before." And that's not a knock on you or your instructor or anything else. There's only so many places that we can go to. So being able to go to a completely novel location that they probably found for the specific purpose of, "Look, this is a really fun place that we'd be able to do this mock event." That's an information gathering exercise for you so that you can see what works, what doesn't, what did I not even have any idea wasn't working. And oh, look at that. I'm about to pass out because I'm so nervous. Okay, I need to work on that before I go to my actual trial because there's no death and sent work. Yeah. So can you talk a little bit from an instructor standpoint as far as what you would want your fellow colleagues to think about when it comes to these kinds of events, how much emphasis they should be putting on them, whether or not they should be hosting them themselves or partnering with their fellow colleagues in their area?

Lori Timberlake (24:48):
Yeah. So the reason this came about, and we've been talking about this, and some people are probably really jealous right now because they don't have them in their area. There could be a mock trial every weekend in our area for the next two months. I mean, there are a ton and a lot of my students are like, "Do we need to go to all of those?" And I think that could be a bit much if we ... I mean, I would love to go to more, but there's literally not another one that I can go to between now and the first trial that I'm planning on entering. So I did the one that I could, I took what I could from it and going with it. But some things to look at like, yeah, who's hosting it, what's their experience is something. And everyone in our area is pretty experienced.

(25:34):
So I think they would all be pretty well run events. But looking at the location, what level are you at and what kind of location is it? Like this weekend we are hosting at an Audubon Society. We've used it many times before. We're not using it for a trial this year. So I thought we'd do some mock trials. It's a tough site. There's taxidermy, reptiles, there are things everywhere. And I might tell some students, maybe this isn't the one for you because I don't want your dog to come in, be terrified right away and then can't find anything. So looking at the sites and saying, "Hmm, is that going to help me? Or maybe I need to go to something or maybe we've been going to all these different places and we haven't had a really big distraction. Let's go see what happens." And then I can ask for help if my dog is stressing out.

(26:26):
On the flip side, people might say, "Oh, I don't want to go to that one. It's just in a training center." That's boring. If you've never been to that training center, there could be different dog smells, different things, different ... If you do AKC, CPE, CWAGS, even USCSS, a lot of the places where trials can be in training centers, it's probably good to practice in different ones that aren't just the one you train in every week.

(26:51):
So while something might seem boring, it might be just what your dog needs. And if it's containers or buried or something, then so who cares what kind of environment it is, right? I mean, as long as you're getting your containers and you're buried in. But yeah, I mean, I think for any areas where they're not doing them, get together, start doing them. Even if you get together, we have a couple different companies getting together in our area and putting them on together. And I think that's helpful because it just helps things go more smoothly. The more help you have, the more people judging and getting people in and out and making it a smooth process so you're not there all day. You shouldn't have to be there all day for a mock trial. So that's a really great idea. We have enough staff that we just pretty much run our own.

(27:33):
Certain of my instructors will run ... Sometimes they run them on their own. Sometimes we get together and do them together depending on who's in town and who's doing what. Looking at all the different things, what level is it, what type of site it is, who's putting it on, can help you make decisions of which one should I go to? Because I think going to them all is just like the same as entering a trial every weekend. We're not really getting the training in. We're just going, we're running this thing blind and we're leaving, and that's not really good training. But doing some blind, because like I said, we want to do known hides in class and in training. So having that opportunity to run some blind hides can be very helpful, again, just to test where are we at, but doing too many could be just go the opposite way, right?

Dianna L. Santos (28:21):
Right. So for instructors, what are some of the things that they should think about as far as when they're trying to add these to their calendar? Because as you very well know, they're already listening to this being like, "Oh God, where is it that I'm supposed to be adding this in, Ms. Lori, this wonderful thing?"

Lori Timberlake (28:41):
No, I know that's the hardest part is scheduling. We tend to do more in the summer and winter because there's not as many trials and then we can get them in before trial season starts, but then it's just kind of a bummer once trial season starts, you don't see as many of these and that's when people probably need them. So yeah, look at the trials in your area and if you could find something a couple months before then so that people really have that time to do the test and see what they need to work on, I think that's the most helpful. But I realize you have to go with when the site's available, when you're available, when there's not another trial going on that everybody else is going to, they're really hard to schedule. But yeah, in a perfect world, like a couple months before an upcoming trial would be a terrific time to have a mock.

Dianna L. Santos (29:29):
Okay. And then the last piece as far as instructors is trying to think about logistics. Do you ever put together a particular class that maybe you're trying to work on a particular skill or set of skills and then you will have a mock trial maybe scheduled afterwards to try to test those skills? Are those the kinds of things people could think about as well?

Lori Timberlake (29:50):
Absolutely. And I wish we, I want to say in the past we might've done that and now life is just chaos, but yeah, that would be Maybe there's a hundred container challenge or something coming up. So to work on that in class, maybe we do this many containers this week. Maybe this week we don't do as many containers, but we do distractors. And then the following week, we're doing different patterns. So doing a four to six week class where you could do all different possible things you can do with containers and then having a hundred container or whatever it may be at the end, that would be a fabulous way. So then we could see what the students absorb, what the dogs, what they absorbed, and then what they still need to work on after they do the 100 container challenge.

Dianna L. Santos (30:38):
Perfect. Was there anything else about this in particular as far as these kind of events that you wanted to share with everybody?

Lori Timberlake (30:45):
No. Do them, host them, go to them. Just don't go crazy.

Dianna L. Santos (30:51):
And then as far as for, let's say for handlers who are like, okay, this is really super interesting, but I think I want to have a little bit more understanding as far as the kind of skills I may need before I go to one to make sure that it makes sense because everyone's trying to stretch their dollar a little bit. Do you offer any kind of virtual consultations where maybe they could do a video review or a Zoom consultation to see where they are and whether or not it would be a good idea for them to go to one of these?

Lori Timberlake (31:19):
Yeah, absolutely. And that's another thing that brought this topic up was a few of my students went to a mock trial, a few of my online students at a zoo and sent me some of their videos. And it was the same time that we were having this local conversation about like, wow, there's a mock trial every weekend. But it was really fun reviewing those videos and because they were blind to them. So it was almost like doing a trial search review, but it was a mock trial. And I think that's really super helpful. And I love doing the video reviews, the Zoom consultations. They're super fun for me. And I think people are getting something out of them because they're usually coming back for more.

Dianna L. Santos (32:02):
Yes, we get very wonderful reviews. So definitely we'll make sure that there are links inside of the, or we're posting this episode, how you'd be able to secure those video reviews and those Zoom consultations with Lori. But then also for our colleagues, do you do any kind of, would they be able to schedule something with you as well where maybe they're trying to figure out how they can add this into their schedule or what they may need to consider when they maybe want to host one of these, maybe they've never done it before. Would you be able to do something like that as well?

Lori Timberlake (32:28):
Absolutely. And I've done it in the past. I've had people reach out. They're like, "Oh, I heard that webinar you did on Scent Work University about whatever." And then we've had Zoom where I've kind of given them information and this is how I set it up and this was my run order. I mean, I can give them all the information of how I put them together and then they've gone on and done things even way better than I've even come up with. So those work out really well.

Dianna L. Santos (32:54):
Perfect. So again, we'll make sure that we have all the information inside where we post on this episode up on our website and social media so you can check all that out. But I just want to make sure that we let everyone know that Ms. Lori is very busy for us. She is coming back and doing so many things. So one of the things that she's doing is she's going to be talking about her new dog that she was just mentioning. Ms. Elsa, she's going to be doing a live stream with us. Can you just talk a little bit about what you're going to be discussing in that live stream as far as training and learning about her?

Lori Timberlake (33:23):
Yeah. Well, the first thing I told Dianna was we're going to have to do this again in six months and a year because I am still learning this dog and we're still figuring things out. But she is a three-legged Malinois. So not only do we have the three-legged issue, but she's a high drive dog and missing a leg is not hindering her in any way. And she's completely different from dogs I've had in the past. So I thought we would just talk about some of the things that I'm working on to try to make her the best dog that she can be and to make our team the best team we can be in Scent Work and in all things. So I thought that was fun when Dianna said, "Hey, you want to talk about Elsa?" And I said, "Always." So it may be interesting because like I said, we're still figuring things out and I think it'll be really fun to see where it goes in the future.

Dianna L. Santos (34:14):
Perfect. Yes, we're definitely looking forward to checking back in. So this is like part one, and then we'll be able to do a check-in in six months and a year to see how things are going. But you guys can join us on that live stream. It'll be streamed on the Scent Work University Facebook page as well as our YouTube channel so that we can ask questions as well. Maybe it could be a great way for you all to see here's a very experienced person. Lori is very experienced trainer, instructor, trial official. She's done it all. And here she is with this new dog who again is different than her other dogs and they're trying to figure out who each other are and they're doing a really great job with it. Oh, if you aren't following Lori on social media, do that because there are also videos that will just brighten your day.

(34:54):
So I definitely encourage everyone to make sure that you check out this live stream and participate. By all means, feel free to ask questions. And we absolutely use these live streams to determine what other kinds of learning opportunities we can offer all of you to ensure that we're getting you the kinds of things that you all need. So definitely encourage you guys to check that out, but we're not done. Ms. Lori is also coming back to offer a whole bunch of webinars for us. So the first set of webinars is all focusing on NACSW. So it's a webinar series, three-parter. So you just talk a little bit about what you're going to be discussing in that webinar series.

Lori Timberlake (35:29):
Yes. And I'm so glad you brought this up. So the first one is like ORT through NW3, and it's just talking about what to expect really at trials. A lot of the things that people just ... I think they're not always covered in classes, and then people come to a trial and they're like, "I didn't know that. " So a lot of that. The middle one is Element Specialty Trials, and we're going to include Elite S in there. And this is the one I'm most excited about because I love the ESTs and we host a lot of them, but there's so many questions out there. People don't know what they are. People avoid them, people aren't hosting them. And I hope that just that middle one is what gets everybody hosting and entering ESTs because they really are super fun. And then we're going to end with Elite, Elite Premier and Summit.

(36:18):
Again, what to expect, how to prepare and things like that.

Dianna L. Santos (36:22):
Perfect. And then we're wrapping up with, you're doing a bunch of stuff for C-WAGs. So the first one is going to be talking about the rally obedience and games and the other one about scent detection. Can you just talk about that real quick?

Lori Timberlake (36:33):
Yeah. So because I needed to add another organization, but the reason I found C-WAGs, and I know it's kind of like outside our area, but close to our area, I really truly believe, and more so now having Elsa, is that we need to build that bond with our dog, that relationship. And I really think the Obedience, Rally and Games help you become a team. I have a whole bunch of my Nose Work students taking my C-WAGS Obedience Rally Games class, and I'm just seeing them come together and it's helping in Scent Work too. So that's why I started it and I'm looking really forward to talking about that. And then the Sent, I'm like, "Do we really need to do C-WAGS Scent?" And I did end up going forward with it and we're doing leagues, which is really nice because it's almost like having a little, even though it's official and it's a trial, it's almost like having a little mini mock trial every week because it's an actual trial, it actually counts, but it's a little bit smaller scale the way we're doing it with the league and we love it.

(37:41):
And my students love it and they're all advanced. There's like mostly elite and summit people starting in C-WAGs and they're having a blast and everyone's really happy. So I'm really glad we did it and I look forward to talking about C-WAGs also.

Dianna L. Santos (37:55):
Perfect. So we'll make sure again, there's information for all those different webinars that we posted up on the podcast episode site, as well as our social media. You definitely want to make sure you check it all out. Ms. Lori is amazing. Ms. Lori, thank you so very much. Was there anything else you wanted to share with everyone before we wrap up for today?

Lori Timberlake (38:11):
No, I think we're good. Thank you so much for having me.

Dianna L. Santos (38:15):
So I want to give a huge thank you to Lori for taking the time to speak to me in this episode today where we're talking about, again, a really important thing for everyone to consider when they are trying to plan out, well, what do I do? There's all this stuff I have to do in order to prepare for trial and trying to figure out, okay, I need to make certain I do my training, my practicing, I got to do field trip searches. But again, I hope that everyone can appreciate all of the real good benefits that Lori was pointing out by going to these mock trials and snip and goes. They are really wonderful opportunities for you to determine where you are in your training, what's working, what may need a little bit more work, and you can really see what a trial like experience is.

(39:00):
And again, getting to those novel locations is key, particularly when there's someone standing there with a clipboard.

(39:07):
I also wanted to point out that really important for instructors to consider hosting these types of events, and Lori did a wonderful webinar for us talking all about how you can do that. So this webinar is called the How to Run CSW Test Prep Classes and Mock, ORT, and Trials Webinar. Very exciting stuff. So I'll make certain that there is a link for that webinar inside of the description for this podcast episode, which should be posted up on our website as well as our social media. Drawingly encourage you guys to check that out. Again, as you can tell, Lori is very experienced when it comes to hosting these kinds of events, so we definitely want to make certain that you get her insights. We are also thrilled to be hosting Lori for a whole bunch of different things as they're coming up. As she mentioned the live stream as well as those webinars, I'll make certain that those links are inside the description as well.

(39:57):
But as always, we want to hear from all of you. What do you think about attending mock trials and stiff and goes? Are you doing it? Are you being good? Are you an instructor and are you making certain that you're scheduling these or working with your colleagues in the area so they are as well? They want to hear from you. I'm looking forward to talking to more of my colleagues and people within the community, but as always, if you're like, "Ooh, I really want you to talk to blah, blah, blah." Let me know. I want to talk to them, so by all means, please feel free to reach out and I will then set up a conversation with them. But as always, thank you so very much for listening to the podcast today. We really do appreciate all of your support. Please give a cookie to your puppies for me.

(40:40):
Happy training. We look forward to seeing you all soon.