Ep. 138: Anita Ambani and Project Poodle

This episode features an exciting conversation with Anita Ambani of The Scholarly Scentz, LLC regarding her "Project Poodle", an ongoing endeavor designed to help her young dog Figment become more confident especially when it concern being around people. Throughout this discussion, Anita highlights how she leverages Figment's love for Nosework, to further build his comfort working inside novel interior spaces with people around.

We are so thankful to Anita for sharing her experiences, her emphasis on appreciating the dogs for who they are and the need to be creative to best support them. Our primary goal should always be for our dogs to be as confident as possible without pushing the envelope too far. Striking this delicate balance can be a challenge, but can improve our dog's daily lives and overall performance in training and at trial.

Speakers: Dianna L. Santos and Anita Ambani

WORK WITH ANITA

To learn more about Anita, check out her website The Scholarly Scentz, LLC or her Facebook page here.

We have been incredibly fortunate to host Anita for several webinars and virtual events. Click here to see the full listing of Anita's offerings through Scent Work University.

RESOURCES FOR SENSITIVE DOGS

• Be Brave: Using Scent Work to Build Confidence Webinar
• Canine Body Behavior and Scent Work for Handlers Webinar
• Click to Calm: Turning Fear and Frustration Into Focus Through Positive Reinforcement Webinar
• Confidence Building Course
• Displacement Sniffing and Other Stress Behaviors Webinar
• Games for Low-Drive Dogs Webinar
• Scent Work for Sensitive Dogs Webinar
• Stranger Danger Webinar
• Trial Prep for Sensitive Dogs Webinar
• What Do You Need Pup Webinar

TRANSCRIPT

Dianna L. Santos (00:00:01):
Welcome to the All About Scent Work Podcast. In this podcast, we talk about all things Scent Work including training tips, a behind scenes look at what your instructor or trial official is going through and much more. In this episode, I have the distinct privilege of having a conversation with Anita Ambani regarding Project Poodle. Very exciting stuff. So before we start diving into the episode itself, let me do a very quick introduction of myself. My name is Dianna Santos. I'm the Owner and Lead Instructor of Scent Work University. This is an online dog training platform where we provide online courses, seminars, webinars, virtual events, eBooks, free training tips, free live streams, instruct, a mentorship program, video reviews, zoom consultations, so much more. All of it is all centered around Scent Work. So regardless of where you are inside of your sniffing journey, whether you're just getting started, you're looking to develop some more advanced skills, or you're interested in competing or already trialing even at the highest levels, we likely have a training solution for you. So now that you know a little bit more about me, let's dive into the episode itself. So in this episode, I have the distinct privilege of having a conversation with Anita Ambani of The Scholarly Scentz all about her Project Poodle. Very exciting stuff. Let's have a listen to that conversation. I'm so delighted that you wanted to talk to me today about Project Poodle. Very exciting stuff. But before we start diving into that, can you just give us a little bit of a background for yourself and for the two dogs that you do have, Zuri and Figment?

Anita Ambani (00:01:30):
Yeah, sure. So I have two dogs, as you mentioned, Zuri and Figment. Zuri is my first dog. She's my novice, a Scent Work dog. So she's the one who started it all and she's now 10. And I also have my miniature poodle who is about to turn three in March. I started dog sports really because of Zuri. I got her thinking she'd be a therapy dog and life would be great. I lived in New York City at the time and she loved everybody and all the dogs and everything. And we were well on our way. We were actually in therapy, dog training classes, and then she got sick and then she got reactive, and then I all of a sudden had to wash her from therapy dog programs. But she was a young dog. She needed a job to do and I didn't know what to do with her besides taking a look at, I needed to put her into something.

(00:02:24):
So put her into rally and I put her into agility. She didn't really like those things too much. And then behaviorally, I was like, I know I need to do something to help her with her feelings around dogs especially. And so I read up about parkour, which we did all the time in the city. I said, I was like, well, this isn't really changing anything. And then I read about Nose Work. So then I dove into Nose Work with her as a really young dog, and she took to it. There was nothing else that mattered in the world and things started not mattering in the world. She didn't really care about the dogs in the class. She was able to coexist around other dogs and not exploding in fear reactivity. And so I said, okay, there's something to be said here. And then in 2019, I relocated to the Midwest and I still was still here in the Midwest, and that's when things really took a turn to a journey I didn't expect.

(00:03:23):
I am a corporate America person. I've always worked a full-time job in the banking industry and the financial services industry. But as I started pursuing more of the dog sports stuff and competing, then next thing you know I said, oh, I'll start teaching classes. Let me go back to offering NACSW CNWI based education in central Ohio because there were no other CNWIs in central Ohio. So I got certified as a CNWI, and then I was like, oh, I really like watching dogs work, so let me try something else. So then I started pursuing judging and then became a judge for C-WAGS and AKC, and then that wasn't enough. So then I said, oh, I need to do more stuff. So then I became a Scoreroom Lead for NACSW. And then more recently I said that was really not enough either. So I became a CO for trials and orts. I'm also an ORT judge, so I really dove into the deep end in terms of the Nose Work stuff, but I also do other sports with my dogs. So they've done coursing ability, they've done the FASTCats, we've done the rally obedience agility. So I like having a well-rounded dog, and it's fun for me. Dogs are kind of my life, and so outside of work, you'll find me spending time with my dogs. So

Dianna L. Santos (00:04:43):
Yeah, so as you all can tell, Anita has been extraordinarily busy inside the Nose Work world. I mean just dogs in general, but definitely with Nose Work, absolutely insane how she just dove in and did all the things. But I think what is interesting with your background is that again, you are trying to do all this stuff and that you were drawn to trying to do something with Zuri in order to help her behaviorally. So can you talk a little bit about some of the changes that you noticed with her and what you were trying to achieve in doing these things?

Anita Ambani (00:05:14):
Yeah, so when I got Zuri as a puppy, so she came from a breeder. She wasn't a rescue or an adopted dog. So I got her as an eight week old puppy. And she was extremely outgoing, super confident. There was not a challenge in the world that would face her confidence. And I think when she got sick, she really shut down and she was very scared and she was timid and people she used to approach where she was happy. Even some of the neighborhood dogs we would see on our walks that she would engage with happily, she just was really scared. And so I really wanted to find an activity that would bring the old zuri, the zuri that I knew. And I understand now years later that reactivity is something that I constantly have to manage and it's never something that's cured, but I wanted her to just feel better about life in general and just bring back some of that spark.

(00:06:16):
And so when we first started doing Nose Work, and I really am thankful to the instructor who said, don't worry. Even if she explodes and barking and lunging and reacting, it's okay. And really this was a recreational Scent Work class. It wasn't even anything that was more structured of competition because I didn't know what I was doing back then. But week one we went in and she exploded and I was mortified. I was getting ready to pack up and leave, and the instructor's like, don't worry, we'll be okay. And then just seeing her be happy and excited of getting the cookies and the container and the instructor was like, let her go because I was so afraid that she was going to go run off to the dog crates that were in the building and go after another dog because she's just, she explodes in fury activity that didn't happen.

(00:07:13):
And I was like, okay, who are you? And so as weeks progressed, it was just a four week course, but over the four weeks she went from, she actually started wagging her tail at some of the other dogs. And instead of being super shut down or just even barking at them, her first reaction was to bark. She's a little dog, she's 10 pounds, so most dogs are bigger than her. So any big dog, she was like, oh my goodness, you're scary. And I have to say something about it. So she stopped reacting in such a way, and she just got excited. She was like, excited, let me add it, pull me to it. She was vocalizing the excitement. And so it was a whole different side of her than this shut down dog that didn't have any confidence in the world. And then right after we took that class, we actually went up to Stower, Vermont for a dog camp because I figured maybe there's something there that she'll enjoy.

(00:08:12):
It gets us out of the city and out of all of the things we started in rally and she was okay. And then we went to the Nose Work side and she was like, I don't care what dogs are around. I don't care what people are around. And she had the same excitement, enthusiasm, we did tracking. It was the same way. So I'm like, this girl likes to use her nose. I saw a confident side out of her. She actually made some dog friends and she didn't react to them. It was all in the Nose Work space. So that was a whole transformation that I didn't even anticipate coming. And so from there I was like, we have to keep going. And so she's able to coexist around dogs that she normally used to be super reactive around. She's friendly again with people. She loves everybody.

(00:09:00):
And so it brought back the puppy for the most part that I had. And so for me, that was the biggest transformation of pursuing Nose Work with her. And after that I was like, we don't have to do other sports Nose Work. It is, but it did lead to other sports because once I was able to do the Nose Work, then I was able to get her in the rally ring. I was able to do the coursing ability and the fast cats with her, and she was able to handle the world of super barky dogs who were on an adrenaline rush trying to get it. I was able to do barn hunt with her where you have to, you're sitting in an individual blind, but there's dogs all around you and she doesn't react anymore. So even though she is still reactive, there might be moments where if a dog looks at her funny, she might bark, but it's never her actually instigating it anymore out of fear. So we had a really big shift in terms of her feelings about the world around her, which is what I notice more than anything out of pursuing Nose Work with her.

Dianna L. Santos (00:10:03):
That kind of journey that you're describing that you've had with her is amazing. And I'm sure there's lots of people saying, that's what I want. And that's again, what we try to tell people is possible where you're able to recognize where the dog is, where it is you'd like for them to go, and you're using certain activities in order to promote their confidence. So they're able to make these choices and determine the world isn't quite as scary around me in her case. I don't need to be worried about the dogs. I can focus on using my dog and those dogs aren't going to bother me. Oh, well, maybe I could maybe be friendly with a dog if I wanted to, but if I don't, it's not that big of a deal. I can just focus on using my nose. So

Anita Ambani (00:10:43):
I also kept her protected. So even though, oh, it's great, she doesn't bark anymore. I didn't give her the opportunity to have that at trial. So we do AKC Scent Work. We do NACSW. NACSW is very strict about the on leash policy with dogs. But AKC, CPE and C-WAGS not so much, but I'm very protective of her. If another dog is approaching, I'm like, no, this dog needs space. And I know they don't make provisions for it, but I'm very protective of her space. I don't allow her to have any interactions with dogs. We don't know. So it's very much almost a controlled environment for her, but it's one that she knows she's safe. So I've kind of harnessed that, okay, I'll protect you. You don't have to worry about dogs coming into your space uninvited or anything. So we don't have a regression on all the progress that we've made because it has taken, I mean, it's taken years to get her where she's at now, but it's always maintaining that safety first and foremost, that she doesn't feel like she has to explode in fear and take matters in her own paw, so to speak.

Dianna L. Santos (00:11:54):
Exactly. We're trying to let her know, you don't have to do this. Mama's got it. It's good.

Anita Ambani (00:11:58):
Yeah. Yep.

Dianna L. Santos (00:12:01):
So having that background I think is really helpful so that you are able to see the dog reactivity side of it, then you add in Figment to your life. Yes. So can you talk a little bit about what you've been experienced with Figment?

Anita Ambani (00:12:12):
Yeah. So Figment is also a dog that I got from a breeder. And when the breeder was raising the litter of puppies, the breeder did a phenomenal job, did everything right that you want to see in a breeder with puppy culture, ESI, all exposure, all of that. And I happened to see a video, I think it was around the six week mark of the puppies where they do a barrier problem where they put a food bowl behind an X pen, or in this case it was a gate, and they bring the puppies up to it and see how they approach to get the food out of the food bowl. Well, figment was the puppy. He went up to the food bowl, he approached it, traced the edge of the food code, and then went around to the food bowl. And when I saw that video, I'm like, that puppy is one I would want for Nose Work.

(00:13:07):
And sure enough, when it came time to making selections, he was one of the dogs that I got shortlisted for. And I said, okay, he has the natural skill of the olfactory that I want because I had no plans. He was going to be my Nose Work primarily. I got the dog for Nose Work. I didn't really think about other sports at the time besides maybe recreationally doing some of the other things that I did with Zuri. But Nose Work had been my focus in terms of what I wanted. And I also wanted a dog that had handler obedience and handler focus. And really I wanted an environmentally sensitive sound dog. I didn't want a dog who cared about the environment. And when I got figment, I talked to the breeder. She mentioned he'll bond very closely to you, but he may or may not engage with people.

(00:14:01):
And at puppies, puppies are kind of blank slates. You don't necessarily know what you get yourself into. And then I brought him home and tried to expose him to all the things that you do as a puppy. They're a sponge, and you have that window that you're like, okay, let me get you out and doubt in the world. So the world's not so much of a scary place, but the one thing that we couldn't seem to shake with him was his view on people. So he was very, in the beginning, he was very fearful of people. He would, some puppies will go up readily to anybody and take a cookie, and he was like, Nope, don't bother feeding me. Don't even bother looking at me. Don't even come near me. And he would just retreat or he would bark, or in some cases with some men, he would growl.

(00:14:49):
So had big feelings about people when it came to him. And so I kept trying. We tried different things and hopefully desensitize him, but he's now almost three, and things haven't really shifted too much from his viewpoint on people. But we're now thankfully at a state where it's no longer reaction and fear unless he gets spooked. And it's just more maintaining neutrality because the dog sport world is full of people. And that's one thing that we have to get used to. So it's not that he was forced to do dog sports, but it was something that's super important to me. And from a skills perspective, he has all the skills in the world. It's just his limiting factor has always been the people.

Dianna L. Santos (00:15:40):
So you're sitting there going like, okay, great. I figured out the dog reactivity side of it, and now I've got the people concern side of it. Well, I win the lottery.

Anita Ambani (00:15:49):
Yeah, a little bit. I was like, I guess I got both spectrums here with both dogs, but one of each.

Dianna L. Santos (00:15:57):
So then that's why you reached out to me. I think I want to talk about this thing I've been doing called Project Poodle where you've been working on some of these things with him. So can you talk a little bit about how this all came about and what is that your objectives are when you're doing these kinds of things with Figment?

Anita Ambani (00:16:13):
Yeah, definitely. So Figment and I managed to get through his ORT in two tries of our first ORT was, it was an eyeopener for me because when I did my ORT with Zuri, it was right around the COVID era, and then a couple of orts I judged in between very little people in the room because once COVID hit the amount of people in the room really shrunk. You didn't have the masses of people. And then when Figment started, he's well past the COVID era, and I wasn't expecting that many people in the room. And so when I did the first ORT with Figment, all these friendly smiling faces, we were the first dog in the Birch in all of the runs. And I come in, I'm like, okay, we've been practicing. I've taken him out and about, I actually curated some ORT experiences with trusted people like my Nose Work students.

(00:17:11):
I'm like, okay, you be the timer, you be the judge. You kind of stand right near the start line and give him a little bit of that people pressure, but in a curated, safe space so that I could kind of desensitize him to the people going into it. But what I wasn't expecting is to have 20 people in the room all smiling at us as we're entering. And so I'm like, I was like, oh my goodness. And my poodle was like, he was trying to backtrack out the door through my legs, and I'm like, oh, no. So we got two out of three because our first run was a bit of a mess. And then our second run, and third one was like, okay, we got it. And then I said, okay, let me just do some A KC Scent Work, because that's a lot of easy runs reps.

(00:17:56):
He's at novice, it's a single hide. Search areas is small, not a whole lot of people will get him more exposure. And he sailed through his novice titles really quick. And then I was like, okay, we'll do another ORT and got that through. And we got our NW1 on our first try, which was great. And then all of a sudden NW2 hit, I was like, ah, he can get it. He knows odor. We've been training. No big deal. But we didn't. And then we didn't, and then we didn't, and then we didn't. Four tries into my NW2. I'm like, I need to do something different. And that's when I was like, all right, I need to get him exposed to the world. Because our area of struggle was not the containers and the gauntlet of the distractors, it was interiors. So it was always the one hide interior search, which was our nemesis.

(00:18:51):
He struggled in interiors. This dog who has confidently searched vehicles, exteriors, even containers inside constantly was struggling with interiors. And I'm like, well, I need to put in some work. So I actually asked my students, I said, Hey, if any of you guys have a nervous dog and you want to come along, I'm going to actually put in the work to desensitize my dog. And because he is a poodle, I just jokingly said, okay, it's time for Project Poodle to kick off. And so two of my Nose Work students signed up to do this with me, and I said, we're going to go almost every single week. I need to put in the work. And so we started finding big box stores that are dog friendly, and we started with super isolated quiet aisles. We started in a Home Depot. That was our very first store that we went into.

(00:19:47):
And when we went into the construction area where there's nobody, and I set out a single hide on a pairing plate, because normally I use switch boxes if I want to target the dog and focus the dog in. But because we were in a Home Depot, I was like, I'll use something that doesn't look like I stole something off of the shelf. So I did a pairing plate and we put it on the floor and I said, okay, we're going to send the dog off to search, and we're going to pay them really heavy, and then we're going to play with them and make it really fun. And then we're going to toss a cookie, have them run away and see if they can reengage with it and see if we can build value for odor. And so we started doing this, and then the first week, all three of the dogs were just like, where am I?

(00:20:32):
What am I doing? Oh my goodness, this is overwhelming. And I said, well, I got to put in the work. And so we kept doing it. We kept going to different stores around Columbus that allow, dogs are welcome to come in. And we just kept repeating the same exercise over and over and over again. And over the course of four months, these dogs went from not able to focusing at all to all of a sudden this became a really fun game that got paid really well. And next thing you know that translated to other things, the dogs, the first time, oh my gosh, the first time we entered the Home Depot, it was like a clown car. The dogs were all over the place. I mean, we tried to of course manage them coming in, but they were just so overwhelmed at entering the doors.

(00:21:23):
But by the end, they were like, and we're still going on. We just kicked it off for 2026. But everyone, towards the end of the period of time, we all entered orderly. We left orderly without the dogs running out the door in a panic like, oh, thank God, that's done. We've run into a couple doozies where the one time we went and it was during the day on a weekend and we didn't know there was a kids construction project. So next thing you know have kids that are screaming, hammers banging, and the dogs were able to search through it. And so we started really small, really small increments, nothing super hard, but it rebuilt the value of the belief in the dog that they can do it, because all of these dogs were shut down. We knew they could do it. They did great in training in their safe space.

(00:22:15):
But when it came to actually going out and about, they were like, I can't do this. The world is too scary. The people are scary. And so we kept building in the progression of the distractions that we would have for figment. It was hearing voices were also another trigger for him to be like, I can't search what I heard that. And so working with perhaps people shopping on the aisle right on the other side of us, and another dog, he has issues with moving objects. So sure enough, in Home Depot, we had forklift going by and he was able to search through it. Another one of the dogs, he used more challenged by tight spaces. And so we worked on some of the aisles where they had stuff in the aisles and he had to work around it. So we gradually curated problems where it was still very baseline for them, but they were able to work through it.

(00:23:10):
So this was about a four month progression, but it was able to turn things around so that we were able to get our NW2 on the fifth try. But he was confident, unlike what I saw previously, and it was a lot of pressure. There were people right at the start line, the group of people, there was a videographer, the CO was there, the judge was there, the timer was there, and they were all congregated. The buildings were echoy. And my first thing thought was like, oh, let me just, let's hope for a miracle. But he took it, he ran with it, and he found the three hides, and it was very, the room was challenging. It was super cold, but his tail didn't drop. He didn't wilt. He didn't try to tuck behind my legs to escape the room. He didn't shut down. He didn't whine.

(00:24:02):
And so seeing that out of him, and also hearing from the two other dogs, one dog, he's also a little people shy like Figma is, and he is now starting to approach random people to say hello. It's almost like they've all had this transformation of sorts where they're like, okay, people aren't so scary. The world isn't so scary. So it's been an amazing journey. It's been one that has taken a lot of work, but really simplifying the problems that they solve to really get them a level of confidence. And we started with just a tin on the floor, very exposed, very out there to actually hiding the hides eventually towards the tail end. And just seeing them able to go through, if there's banging going on, things drop. They're not startling. At one point, I had one of the hides they placed for figment where people were walking behind him and he didn't care. So seeing that level of change just in four months with constant reinforcement, high level of reinforcement, high level of play, high level of making it fun, really turn things around for all three of those dogs,

Dianna L. Santos (00:25:15):
That is absolutely amazing. I love all of that. So I'm sure that there are people like, okay, that sounds awesome, but I want more details. So when you guys are going inside of the box store and you're setting up your exercise, so you start off with a tent on the floor, dog comes up, they may choose to go and engage with it. If they do, they find the hide you reward really heavily. You then go back and you play. You're then releasing 'em to go back to the hide if they so choose. Or is it now another dog's turn?

Anita Ambani (00:25:44):
Yeah, no, no. We did it in three reps, basically per dog. So we set the tin on the floor. We basically have the dog so that they are guaranteed to have odors smacking them in the face. I'm not starting them for 30 feet away or anything. We're really starting them in the very beginning from two feet away, maybe a foot away if the environment is too hard. And one of the dogs was like, I just can't. We moved. We were like, okay, we're not going to force you to search through conflict. The mission was as conflict free as we could get it for these dogs, but still being able to do it in a novel environment, because that's what you're facing in trials. It's all novel environments. So we started very simple where the hide was maybe one to two feet away from the dog.

(00:26:35):
So it's a quick hit, a quick wind. They're getting lots of treats, they're getting lots of fun play. And what I mean play, some of the dogs liked toy. So the handler brought out the ball, they struck the ball, they tugged with the dog and then released them back to seeing if they could reengage with odor. So part of it also, there's mixed views on finding a previously found hide. But for these guys, I want to see, can you reengage with the hide on your own without me guiding you, without me prompting you? See if you can find value for that exercise. And I thank Ashley Wendler for this exercise because she, from the detection world, they've done similar exercises. So it's like really like, okay, can you pick odor over everything else? And so for Figment, he loves the treat toss game. So I taught him that separately from Nose Work where I would toss a treat in one direction, he would go and run and get it.

(00:27:33):
And then as soon as he turned around, I'd be like, get it. And for me, get it. It's like the treats going to be thrown on the ground so you can run in the opposite direction. And so it would become this really fast back and forth game. So he knew already that game was fought, and so he would find it, and I'm like, yeah, good boy. And I'd pay him five or six treats at the hide itself, and then I'd be like, get it, and then toss it away and then get it, toss it the other way, and then have that play. And then all of a sudden it's like, okay, the last time, three or four tree tosses. And then I'll stop and see what he does. And then he will go engage with the high, and again, the high reinforcement, the high play, and just get it three or four times.

(00:28:18):
And then, all right, see if you can find the odor again. So it is also playing a little bit around with the arousal of the dog. So because it's such a high energy game, they get very excited, but then it's like, okay, can you regulate that down a little bit and be able to focus and find the hide? So if the dogs get a little bit too high, then we do play some slow treat deliveries, either some control unleash exercises that take a breath is one of my favorite ones to bring down arousal so that they can still think, we don't want the dogs that are so high that you have to peel 'em off the ceiling either. But these dogs are all shut down, and they shut down to the point of slow down and not wanting to do things. And so for them, we had to bring them up.

(00:29:04):
And so for them, they needed that excitement, they needed that high energy, and they also needed the praise and the big payout. So sometimes people fall into this trap of they become stingy handlers where the dog gets one or two cookies and that's it. But for a sensitive dog who's fighting everything else in their environment, you have to do a little bit more to bring them out to the best that they can be. So once we got that close progression, then we started adding distance. So then, okay, we all had all the dogs ran on leash. No one ran off leash. I'm not doing that in a public access place in a public store. But can the dog then go at three feet? Can they go at four feet? And then can they potentially now go at the end of your 10 to 15 foot leash?

(00:29:52):
Great. Once we got that, then we started adding movement of the handler. So in the beginning we were standing next to the tin, so we were anchoring to the tin, sending the dog away, but then the dog would reengage, we're there we're kind of their safe space. It's like, okay, mom's here, I can do this, or my dad's here, I can do this. And then eventually once that became proficient, then it was like, okay, when you toss the dog away with a cookie, move the opposite direction. Not to lure the dog to the hide, but just move out away from that hide. So we're no longer anchoring there. And then can the dog do it? And then once we got through that, so that was about the first two months of us doing this exercise out and about, it was like, okay, can you reengage with the hide?

(00:30:42):
So we would do it three reps per dog, and while the dog, one dog is working, the rest of us are doing focus work with our dogs. So we're constantly maintaining that connection with our dogs. We're maintaining the whole safety is paramount. So making sure that if even people are walking around in the store, can I pett your dog? No, no, we're working, sorry, maintaining that safety and security of those dogs. And then once everyone had a turn, we'd go find another spot in the store because that's a new different novel location. And we kept this session short, three searches, and then we were done. So we spent more time driving to the store than we searched, but we started, it was a lot of repetition. It was the same pairing plate, it was the same kind of visual context, cuber the dog. So they got very familiar with the expectation of, okay, we're coming into this new place to do the Sniffy game to have fun, but we kept it short and sweet because we didn't want to get to the point where they're all like, they're okay until they're not.

(00:31:45):
Okay. And so we kept that going. And then as we were navigating from searches to another, I'm a big fan of the pattern games of control leash. So Figment likes the 1, 2, 3 cookie game. So it's like 1, 2, 3, treat, 1, 2, 3, treat. Some people use the magnet hand with the treat in the hand and kind of navigating where the dog's nibbling at the treat. So everyone had to figure out, find what method worked for them for their dogs to maintain that focus and connection as we also navigated to the environment. So that gave us preparation to how to deal with staging in a trial. So it was really perfecting that staging routine of how are you going to deal with, okay, you're seeing people, you're getting to your next chair, how are you going to be dealing with that? How are you going to be maintaining that focus with your dog?

(00:32:34):
And so it was a little bit of experimentation. Oh no, that didn't really work. He saw the person down the hall and he was like, oh, what's going on? So it's like, okay, I have to tweak something. So we were able to work through that. And then as we started getting the movement part of it down where the dog was moving and we were moving, then we started putting, okay, let's put the pairing plate on a low shelf, see if they can deal with that two inches of elevation, see if they can figure out that problem. And again, it was the high didn't move, they just ran it in three reps, but they started from different points. And then once that was like, okay, these still the exposed chin, okay, now can you start from behind a pallet and work your way around the pallet to find that hide that might be on the floor? Adding a little bit of a complexity with a small barrier and reintroducing some challenges because they're not always going to see the hide. It's not always going to be readily available to them, to the point where we were able to say, okay, well, we can put a hide on a shelf that's maybe about two feet high, nothing crazy. We still want the confidence in the dog, but I'm going to start you with three shelves away and can you find it?

(00:33:48):
But the key with this is really taking into super small increments. So if the dog is struggling at any point, take it back to the last point that they were successful. So this was really, really small, thin slicing of, okay, I want not adding too many variables at once. Making sure that my criteria, the dog is picking odor over environment stayed the same no matter what we presented to the dog. So that was my criteria. Is the dog confident? Is he able to, or is she able to engage with the hide? Is she able to pick odor over environment? And so once I knew that was solid, then I added something else. So then it was like, okay, small step away from the hide, like, okay, instead of being maybe within a foot of the hide, can I now be two feet away if that's too hard?

(00:34:39):
No, I'm going to go back to being one foot away from the hide. And then gradually, can I send my dog on one end of the 15 foot leash and can I split the difference? And can we both be about eight feet away and can you find it? And so then, yeah, I might be doing some running to step in and quickly pay. But still it was working out those problems because in trials we're moving, the dogs moving, and so we also need to make sure that the dogs are okay with having a little bit of distance from us because we're not going to be one foot away from them in a trial. So we had to also work on that as well. So really different variations. And then it wasn't always getting harder. So we would start like, okay, we would work these problems.

(00:35:26):
They're doing great. Fantastic. We'll introduce the next step for maybe one session, and then we'll go back to where we were the previous session. So we've made it really variable because if we keep making it harder and harder and harder with these sensitive dogs, they will get to the point where, oh, it's getting really hard. I can't do this. I don't feel comfortable anymore. Why is this getting so much harder? And these, I mean, yes, I'm putting human emotion and human words behind it, but we really want to, I wanted them to feel like rock stars no matter what we did. And even if it was hard, it's like, Hey buddy, you are really amazing at that. Now let me reward you with something really simple, really fun. Take a little bit of that pressure off. So I think sometimes, and I'm guilty of this too, falling into that trap of like, okay, we got this. Let's move on to the next step. And so with the sensitive dogs, especially the ones that are on the more shut down side of things, we really have to balance that out. Yeah, okay. I can stretch you a little bit, but I'm not going to keep stretching you until the rubber band breaks.

Dianna L. Santos (00:36:36):
This is all amazing, and it's just tickling my little behavior brain. I love it so very much.

Anita Ambani (00:36:41):
Yeah.

Dianna L. Santos (00:36:43):
So one of the things I think that is absolutely spectacular that you keep referring back to is that you are trying to build this confidence in the choice level for the dog. So what were some of the things that you were looking for with their body posture, how they would present themselves, how they would look to determine, okay, this is going well. Okay, maybe I need to back off. Okay, maybe we can push a little bit more. What are some of the things that you were looking for when you were doing all these things?

Anita Ambani (00:37:08):
Yeah, so for Figment in particular when I know he stressed is when he starts scanning the environment, he is constantly searching around, he's looking at, and he's not focusing on the task at hand. So he will look everywhere around him. He's checking in every single direction. I didn't know that his head was capable of turning in that angle, but you learn something new every day. And how high is his tail when he starts getting worried, his tail drops, he holds his tail up in a pretty high tail carriage when he's confident and he's feeling good. And also, what is his breathing like? Is he panting really heavy, heavy? When he gets stressed, he starts panting and he starts almost like a hyperventilation action going on. He is like, I can't handle it. And also, how is he taking treats? Is he taking them really sharp?

(00:38:05):
Normally in a calm, relaxed state, he's taking them very gently. So if he's taking them sharp, I'm like, okay, you're a little bit stressed out. So I was looking at it from that perspective and also how fast are you moving? If you're really cautious with how you're moving forward to the high, you're over the point where I want you to be. And so taking a look at really knowing your dog's body language in a natural state is so important. So what is your dog's mouth doing normally? Is it relaxed? Do they tend to keep it closed? Do they tend to have a pretty level, dogs will pant at different levels? How does your dog normally carry its mouth? How does your dog normally carry its tail? How does your dog normally carry its ears? One of the dogs, when he gets stressed, his ears pin way back.

(00:38:57):
It's like, I can't, my ears, it's a dead giveaway. Or is the dog trying to escape from the problem? One of the dogs, what he, he's a herding breed. And one of the things that he did was when he started getting nervous, he started hurting his handler. So he would go around her, around her, around her as if he's almost trying to protect her because he is like, I can't function right now. So just knowing your dog's sign is when they're normal, so that when it's looking like it's off, it's like, okay, they might be stressful. Or the one dog, he gets very excessively drooly when he gets stressed. I mean, you're talking about pools of drool on the ground. And so it's like if we start seeing the drool happening, it's like, okay, why don't we pause? And for me, it's okay to end on a negative note.

(00:39:52):
The dog doesn't have to find it because if the dog is struggling and not willing to search, it's like, okay, let's just call Finn and tell him he's a good boy and let's go find an easier location. You just had a shelf come crashing down behind you. I'm going to expect you to search through that. So let's give you a breather. We'll try it again in a different location, change up the picture. I am not going to force the issue of, okay, no, you have to solve this side because this is how we're only going to be able to progress. No, it's not that. So for me, it was really reading the body language of the dog and really studying that and knowing your dog when they're at home, how do they behave at home in their comfort zone? How do they behave in a training class in their comfort zone?

(00:40:42):
And then knowing where the difference is and being able to say, okay, I'm starting to see signs that my dog's not comfortable or they're slowing down, or they're just scanning the environment. They're lacking focus, they're panting, they're breathing really hard, they're taking treats super sharp. Or even looking at their pupils, are they dilated to the point the dog is like, oh my gosh, armageddons about to happen. So all of those things, it is things that we have to learn about, especially about the sensitive dogs who they'll be okay until that point hits and then they're like, Nope, I'm going to respond to the world with my opinions and it's probably not going to be a way you're going to. And then because for a while with Figment, my biggest fear was that when he's not okay, his default response is not to bark. It's to actually growl.

(00:41:37):
And so I'm like, oh, please don't growl at anybody. You're going to get us kicked out of a trial. I'm never going to be able to compete with you. And not that that's, I mean, it's a worst case scenario, but it's not something that I want for him or want for me. I don't want him to associate what's a really fun game for these dogs to be like, oh my God, I'm so scared and the only way I can get out of it is to growl at somebody, and I know my mom's going to take me away. So that was a legitimate fear of mine, especially with him, because if somebody startles him or someone spooks him, it's like he's going to, I'm do not growl under no circumstances. So in the beginning it was like, don't bark, don't growl, don't voice anything towards people.

(00:42:23):
And I was like, that's not the way I want to go into a search. I want him to be like, all right, I got this. I'm comfortable in my own skin. So we had to work on all of those things. And for me, I had to really, this was new uncharted territory for me. I had sensitive dogs in my classes, but until you're in it, you really don't know how to address it. And so for me, it was really learning what are the signs of stress that a shutdown dog will show? And so it is subtle. It may not be that overt like, oh my God, I'm stressed and I'm going to bark at everybody and I'm going to lose my mind. Sometimes it's just the subtle signs like, okay, the drool is starting to increase. I see the tail starting to drop. I see the dog starting to slow down. So really, really subtle signs, and really you have to study your dog because that's the only way I think that you're able to really understand when they're starting to get to that point where they're over threshold to starting to shut down in the search.

Dianna L. Santos (00:43:28):
Absolutely. And the thing that I just want to piggyback on this is that your experience is just gold. I know that it doesn't feel like that in the moment, but the amount of education that you have gained through this and the people who've been involved in Project Poodle is absolutely, it is priceless that now you're able to see all these signs and communications and you're able to internalize it and interpret it. This is something that all of us should really strive to do. Our dogs are telling us this stuff all the time, even if they aren't necessarily sensitive or reactive, there are definitely times that all dogs are communicating and it's just totally missed because they are so subtle. They're just like, I'm a little concerned. Oh, I guess you don't care. Alright, I'll try my best. But I really wasn't okay with this. And if we had known, we may have been able to do something, or it would have explained what may have happened in a search as an example, that they were having a hard time finding a hide. But if we were able to see what they were telling us, then we could have been better supportive. So again, it's not that I upon any of this on you, but the fact that you have the experience you have now, all of these skills that are absolute gold, that if you had a way of packaging it up in some kind of serum that people could drink, it would be so wonderful. I

Anita Ambani (00:44:46):
Would like to drink it myself, trust me because, and it's hard. It is work, right? We're all busy. And because we do do multiple sports, it's like, okay, it's my one night a week. I had free my only free weeknight, and I just want to be home on the couch and just watching television. I don't get to watch TV at all. I want to watch my cooking shows on Netflix that I don't have that luxury, but I knew that I had to turn things around because I'm like, this doesn't feel good for me and it doesn't feel good for him, and it is constant work. I thought. I was like, okay, this to me was like, all right, I need to put my big girl pants on and actually train my dog and address this issue and take the bull by the horns. But then I realized, I was like, this has to continue.

(00:45:43):
And so I put a post out there saying, Hey, I'm opening it up for 2026. And I had no idea how much of a need there was because in less than a minute, I had three spots and they filled, that's the other thing in these outings, it is a small group. I'm not taking 10 or 15 people out and about. We have five dogs, max Cap, because I'm like, we need to have a manageable group. We need to have a, and we're all watching out for each other, so we all know what our dog sensitivities are. So it's like, oh, there's a person coming behind you. Oh, thank you. And we'll move and we'll shift to keep that sense of safety. But we're also, I'm not here to run a huge dog training class that's out and about where I'm renting a space or things like that.

(00:46:34):
So it's also, we need to keep the numbers small because a whole bunch of sensitive dogs together is also not necessarily the ideal mix. So we have to balance that out. And so it's a community effort here, but knowing that there's so many people and there are people that are like, Hey, if a spot ever opens up, I want in. So it's a bigger thing in the sport than I even realized it was. And I do have figment to thank for that because he did open my eyes to working with a dog who finds people and environments scary, and how do you, I had to work on desensitizing and Zuri dogs, but for him, it's like the people is a whole different ball game. It is variable every single time. Yes, dogs can be variable too, but for Zuri, the dogs were in the context of the sport for figment. The people in the novel environments are context of every day. So it's like, okay, how can I change your feelings about the world around you and just have you be more confident on your own four paws and your own fur coat?

(00:47:44):
I want you to feel okay about the world around you. And so now he's able to walk in, he owns a place, he's able to walk into agility in class or an agility trial and not have a panic attack because there's people everywhere. So it is translating into other things that we do, but we've had to really, really, really work on that. And the more I see other dogs who are shy and shut down, it's like we have to put in that work and it takes extra work. It's not going to be covered in a one hour class that you go to every week, or Figment doesn't care about the people outside. Exteriors was never an issue, but as soon as you put him in a room with all four walls, even though it was a big room, that feeling of being closed in without an escape was very panicking for him. So really relieving that pressure of like, okay, you're okay. The world isn't out to get you. The boogeyman is not going to come around the corner that had to take work, and it still takes work. And so as we continue to move on, it is going to be continuing to go to different places and see different things and experience different things, experience different types of distractions that you don't feel so much pressure that it's like, oh, this is new and scary and I can't handle it.

Dianna L. Santos (00:49:13):
I think it's absolutely amazing that you've done this. And again, I know that it's just like, well, I didn't want this, but I think

Anita Ambani (00:49:20):
That, no, I didn't. Honestly, no one wants this, right? No one wants a project dog. No one wants, I love nothing more than when I go to a trial, if I'm coing or if I'm judging and I see a team that's just so happy and the dog is so confident, they're like, I'm on it, and nothing else matters. And they don't have to worry about the mental focus it takes in staging. It's like you can just go and have fun and you don't have to expend so much mental energy and just managing the dog. And so people who don't have that, it takes a lot out of the handler to have a dog who has potentially issues with other dogs that you have to manage or in fig's case issues with people. And how do you handle that? For me, it's like people are like, oh, it's a poodle.

(00:50:15):
It's like, no, please just talk to me. Do not engage with my dog. And so having to target the narrative without being rude, of course you thank them or it's, oh, this guy's a little people shy, so if you don't mind, can you just talk to me and try not to look at him or engage with him? And especially in trials, people want you to be successful. So I'm really fortunate that if I approach him saying, Hey, this guy's a little, he's shy. If you don't mind, you can talk to me and I'm just going to focus on my dog. And it's taken the pressure off of him that, oh my gosh, someone's looking at me or someone's trying to talk to me. Or I'll say, I'm dog number two, I won't even say his name. So it's like, okay, dog number two. And kind of leading in with that example, if it's like he's also sensitive about people, random strangers saying his name, it's like, oh my God, why are people calling my name?

(00:51:17):
Don't talk to me. So it's a lot of expenditure of my mental energy as a handler, and I'm lucky I have experience and been doing this now for almost 10 years. It's crazy. But it takes a lot out of you. And then to still have that focus to be able to read your dog in the search and be able to support them when they're struggling. And that's also the other thing with Project Poodle is learning how, when do you need to step into support? Because as much as I love a dog driven search, I love a dog who can be like, yeah, I got this. I found this odor cone. Great. Next one, I got this. No problem. But sometimes they need help. And so learning that skill, learning that, okay, here's where I can push. Here's where I know I'll have to step in.

(00:52:12):
Here's where I know I'll have to handle. Because every element is different with the sensitive dogs. Some of them are like, okay, I can run on 15, no problem. And then it's like others, it's like, no, I need you to be a little bit closer to me. So it's also helped figuring out that spa boundary that the dog feels comfortable and the dog feels safe, and learning that for each environment and each element that they have to search in. So it also helped to figure that out too. But yeah, I don't want this on anybody. I don't wish this on anybody, but if you put in the work and if you really break it down, I had a conversation recently with somebody else who was struggling with their dog and interiors as well, and I sent them a very detailed breakdown plan of how I tackled this with Figment, and it was 30 plus steps, and it was like, oh, okay, I have to take this in much smaller steps.

(00:53:09):
So it is really, I mean, inch by inch, it's not like, oh, we got this one day and latent learning happens. They sleep on it, and then next thing you know they're doing Elite level interior search. No, it's not that at all. It's really, really going. Think about the first time you started your first class and how excited your dog was and how excited you were, and it's like having to bring that sense of emotion, and that dog is like, oh, I found the cookie in the box. I'm a rock star. So we have to bring that feeling back and then gradually make it hard. So kind of where we're going with the whole Project Poodle in 2026 is to start introducing some more complex challenges in the search. Can you do multiple hides? Because up until this point, I'm a really strong proponent of single hide sourcing.

(00:54:02):
I think there's a lot of challenges that you can set with single hides, but you're not going to face single hides forever. So it's like, okay, we're eventually going to add, can you do two hides in a single aisle in a store, right? Can you work through multiples? Are you able to be confident with that? But there's still so much more I have to do with them, can you do a little bit more elevation? Can you get up to three feet? Can you get up to four feet? So there's a whole host of challenges and odor problems and pictures that I want them to see to be able to do successfully before I even think about having a second hide. Because if they can solve a single hide, confidently can move on and find the next one. And the third one, if you have third ones or multiples, depending on the level you're

Dianna L. Santos (00:54:48):
At. I think all of that is amazing, and I hope that people are able to appreciate that this is literally what we mean when we say break things down into smaller pieces. But I do just want to give you your flowers, even if you don't want to accept them, but I do want to give them that. This is incredible what that you've done with Figment. It's incredible what you've done with the people who've joined Project Poodle, but it's also incredible for you in that you have been able to achieve all these different skills and this learning and this approach while still recognizing I am tired. This is hard, this is challenging, but you are still stepping up and doing it, and because you're showing such a level of empathy for your dog, that also reinforces you when you see him succeed,

Anita Ambani (00:55:38):
And

Dianna L. Santos (00:55:38):
That then puts more wind inside your own back so that you can do this some more. You can also be a little bit more forgiving for yourself. So you have done an incredible thing and you should be very, very proud of yourself.

Anita Ambani (00:55:50):
Yeah, no, it's, it's been a journey and I've now started to shift from dreading interiors to be like, okay, I think we got this. And in our last NW2, it was the three height interior. It was a tough one, and the pass rate, unfortunately it happens. They're not always, sometimes they're great, sometimes they're not so great. But he was one of the few that nailed it, and I was really, really proud of that because he was able to, the tail up the echoes didn't scare him. I was like, Ooh, it's really echoing here. But he didn't care. He did not even, I got the videos because they had a professional videographer there. I got the videos. He didn't even look over in the direction of the people, and I was like, wow. And so from our weakest element, he was seconds away from actually placing in interiors from that NW2.

(00:56:50):
And so I'm like, I'm seeing this transformation. I'm seeing the shift, and I'm like, I know this is a lot of work, but I'm like, okay, I kind of have to keep going because I want to see what he's capable of. Yeah, sure. I could have probably retired him if he was like, all right, we'll just stick to the easy stuff. We'll stick to, we don't have to do interiors. We can do do AKC where you do everything but interiors. But I'm like, I don't want that for us. I want to see what we could do. I want to see what we can achieve because I'm like, I know you have it in you, but it's also honoring the dog. This hasn't been just training alone. I've sought out other resources. I've sought out different modalities. I've done acupuncture, I've done chiropractic work. I've worked even with an animal communicator to try to get to what is my dog telling me.

(00:57:49):
I've even tried supplements. I've tried pharmaceutical help to help address the anxiety that he has in life. So training definitely helps, but you have to look holistically at what do I need to really support my dog? And the pharmaceutical intervention, it was needed to address anxiety at the time. It's not always a permanent thing, but it is something that if training isn't working, maybe you have to have that conversation with your vet or maybe you have to pursue behavioral medicine, it's okay too. It's just not thinking, okay, training alone is going to fix everything. So it's been a journey with him. But my first foremost thing is the wellbeing of the dog. So if that's not in place, then nothing else really matters. Dog sports don't come at the cost of your dog. And so for me, it's like they are my pets first and foremost before they're brand performance partners, but I have to honor them.

(00:58:55):
I have to honor the dog that's in front of me. So he may not be the flashiest dog, but he's extremely methodical. He's a great searcher. We've had success after we've started putting in the work. He, he's gone high in trial in AKC at his level amongst many, many dogs who have much more experience than him. So to me it's like, okay, yeah, those are great accolades, but it is a testament of putting in the work. It is a testament to say, okay, if you can work towards bringing out the best in your dog, they can shine. And that to me is the most rewarding part about this journey. Hopefully next dog will be a little bit easier, but this has also helped me as an instructor have a lot more empathy to the dogs who are struggling to the dogs, where I'm just like, I don't understand why they're having a challenge coming to class.

(00:59:50):
And so it has also allowed me to say, okay, maybe I'm adding too much pressure. Let's back it off. And changing the picture to set the dog up for success. We will never change the dog. The dog is who they are. Figment came pre-programmed being scared of people in this world. He was born that way. That's how he came out of the box. Zuri with her illness, changed with her feelings about dogs, but we can always adjust the picture to help the dog be successful. So we're not going to change the dog, but we can take steps around the dog honoring who they are to allow them to really have fun in the sport. It's not all about trialing. That's that's a desire of mine, but it doesn't have to be that way. So even if it's recreational and your dog is like, it's like, okay, cool.

(01:00:44):
They couldn't get that a month ago, but look at them now. That's pretty awesome. So even taking a look at where he was to where he is now, it's like, all right, now we're at NW3. Now I've entered him into seminars and workshops because I did one when he was a young dog, but he completely shut down. I didn't have a dog who could search the second day. And now I'm like, okay, we're finally at the point where I feel comfortable now with him that I can do, I'm doing training fest in Michigan. I'm super excited about that. I'm doing Nose Work camp with my dog. I was like, who is this? Who are you? Who are we? I'm doing seminars with him now, and I'm like, if I didn't put in the work, I would've never bothered signing up because I'm like, he can't handle it.

(01:01:31):
But because I'm putting in the work, because I'm still continuing to do the work, these things are now possible. And so it's helping both of us bring the best out of our team because I'm like, I want us to, I see big things for him and for me in the future. He's a young dog. He's not even three. And so I'm like, we have a lot of life left ahead of us in this sport, and I'm ready to tap into that potential. And if it means that I will never get to watch any of my cooking shows on Netflix, that's okay because it's worth it. The time spent has been worth it. So it's really nice to see him starting to go from scared to like, yep, I got this. Hold my pup cup. I'm good. Let me go get it.

Dianna L. Santos (01:02:16):
That's awesome. I am so impressed with that. You've done, thank you so very much for sharing us, sharing with us all about Project Poodle. And so what are some of the ways that people may be able to follow along with your journey?

Anita Ambani (01:02:28):
So actually I don't share too much of it on my personal page, I will post, oh, we went to Project Poodle, but I was actually thinking about actually doing more of a blog post on my Facebook page. You can find me at The Scholarly Scentz and follow along, but I was like, I should do more about videos. And I mean, I record stuff, but I'm like, I should probably share more about the steps and folks can contact me on my page, folks. I have my website, the scholarly sets.com. I'm happy to provide training plans. I love training plans. I know that there's a couple of webinars coming up by other fabulous presenters talking about training plans. But yeah, if folks are having struggles and they're having difficulties, I love breaking down problems. And so it's feel free to reach out to me and share a video.

(01:03:24):
Video is so telling, so if there's a video to watch and it's like, okay, we can break this down. And there are certain dogs that this won't work for. These dogs, they have their reactivity, they don't have aggression. So sometimes aggressive dogs, there's a time and place for it. But sometimes there's going to a big box store. If your dog is extremely dog aggressive, potentially running into a dog, it's not going to be ideal. So there might have to be some other tweaks that you have to make to be able to get the same work, but within maintaining safety at all times. But for dogs who are like, they're a little sensitive, they're a little scared, they're a little shy working on breaking down a plan to incrementally set them up for success, I'm happy to do that. Don't have a ton of bandwidth to do online classes, but happy to do consults on a one-off basis if folks need help.

Dianna L. Santos (01:04:24):
Perfect. So we'll make certain that we share all of Anita's contact information. We post this podcast episode, miss Anita, thank you so very much for everything that you do. We really do appreciate you.

Anita Ambani (01:04:32):
Yes, and thank you for having me. This has now become such a topic that I love talking about. I didn't think it would be that way, but it's like, alright, it's a really fascinating topic and I'm glad. I really appreciate the opportunity to have to talk about it.

Dianna L. Santos (01:04:47):
I want to give a big thank you once again to Anita for joining me for this wonderful conversation, talking all about Project Poodle. Again, I love the fact that Anita is really leaning into supporting Figment as much as she possibly can. I love the fact that she has these other dogs that are coming along as well, and they're also growing in their confidence learning that the world can be a much safer place. And in this conversation, I hope everyone can hear the benefit of recognizing who our dogs are, not necessarily trying to change their personality, but we're just trying to show them that they can do things, that there's a delicate balance with all of this. But when we have sensitive dogs, it is absolutely a good thing to know what their comfort zone is and then to assess can we push that boundary a little bit and to do so with empathy and kindness and care and lots of patience.

(01:05:46):
So much patience. But at the same point, I also like the fact that Anita is sharing that this is very trying for people who have dogs that are having any kind of behavioral profile that's challenging. And I want anyone who's listening that if you do have a reactive dog, an environmentally sensitive dog, a shy dog, whatever, give yourself some grace too. That's very, very important. There's no point in sugarcoating that these things can be challenging. And the more that you can be empathetic and patient for your dog, the more you want to also be patient empathetic with yourself that some days you just may not be able to deal with stuff, and that's okay. That's not a problem. That's expected. Sometimes you need a day off. But then for those of us in the community that may have never had to share their lives with a dog who has any of these things, I would put forth to you that it is absolutely a gift to have these experiences.

(01:06:47):
It opens your eyes. And if you've never had one of these kinds of dogs, it can be very difficult to kind of wrap your head around it. I could just bring my dog everywhere and they're totally fine. Again, I tip my hat to you. That's a wonderful experience to have. However, I can guarantee you that no matter how confident and stable a dog may seem, dogs are talking to us all the time. And what I hope that anyone listening to this episode realizes is as handlers, once we have an experience with a dog who's either sensitive, reactive, shy, aggressive, whatever, you must learn to hone your eye and you can then read those communications even more. So what I would urge everyone across the spectrum, no matter who you share your life with as far as a canine partner, if we all can better understand what the dogs are saying, and also all just take a breath and be a little bit more empathetic for everyone in the community, that could really go a long way.

(01:07:48):
So again, I want to tip my hat to Anita and all of our fellow Project Poodle people. Well done. And thank you very much for sharing all of your experiences with us. Awesome Possum Pots, as always, definitely would love to hear from everyone, the community. So we'll be posting this episode up on the Scent Work University site as well as our social media and YouTube and all that fun stuff. So feel free to write any comments or questions there. If there are other topics you're interested in us covering in the podcast, feel free to let me know. We'll be talking to other colleagues and professionals and people within the community because you want to hear from lots of other people and not just me. But as always, thank you so very much for all of your support. We really do appreciate it. Please give a cookie to your puppy for me. Happy training. We look forward to seeing you soon.