Ep. 141: Truly Seeing the Dog

The one skill that torments many Scent Work teams is the handler's ability to correctly read their dog. There is so much on the line! Getting a "No" when training is bad enough but hearing the dreaded “No” at a trial, that is so much worse! It can feel as though the floor is collapsing out from under you.

Thus, it makes sense that people clamor for a definitive neon sign from their dog, “HIDE IS HERE, CALL IT!” However, this approach is limiting. We are missing a far more intricate picture our dogs are trying to paint for us when we are only obsessed about the hide location.

In this episode, we talk about why taking the time to truly learn what our dogs are communicating throughout the entirety of the search, as well as in day-to-day life, is not only worthwhile but fun to do!

Speaker

Dianna L. Santos

RECOMMENDED RESOURCES

• Who’s Watching Who? Understand the Dog’s Changes of Behaviors (COBs) Webinar
• Language of Nose Work: Reading Your Dog Webinar
  
• Displacement Sniffing and Other Stress Behaviors Webinar
  
• P for Pronounced or Pee? Webinar
  
• Canine Body Behavior and Scent Work for Handlers Webinar
  

TRANSCRIPT

Dianna L. Santos (00:00):
Welcome to the All About Scent Work Podcast. In this podcast we talk about all things Scent Work that can include training tips, a behind scenes look of what your instructor or trial official is going through and much more. In this episode, I want to talk about truly seeing our dogs. So before we start diving into the episode itself, let me do a very quick introduction of myself. My name is Dianna Santos. I'm the Owner and Lead Instructor of Scet Work University. This is an online dog training platform where we provide online courses, webinars, seminars, virtual events, eBooks, video reviews, zoom consultations, instructor mentorship, program, free training tips, free live streams, so much stuff and all of it is all centered around Scent Work. So regardless of where you are in your stiffing journey, maybe you're just getting started, you're looking to develop some more advanced skills, you're interested in trialing, or you may even be competing at the upper levels. We likely have a training solution for you. So to know a little bit more about me, let's dive into the episode itself.

(01:00):
So in this episode, I want to talk about truly seeing our dogs when we are talking about Scent Work like boo, this is the hard part. Santos being able to read my dog is so hard, and I get it. I really do. And I think it is helpful for us to remind ourselves that this is hard, that we are people and they are dogs. It is not just a very simple thing. If we think about it for just a second, there's a lot of misunderstanding and miscommunication that can happen between people when we're communicating verbally. Have you ever sent someone an email or a text and then they're like, Hey, why are you so upset with me? And you're like, I, I was just trying to convey some information. You're like, oh, well I read it as though you were mad. And then you can still have misunderstanding even when you're face to face with somebody where they can see your body language.

(01:57):
My point being is that we shouldn't be shocked that being able to interpret what our dogs are telling us is difficult because we can very often find it very difficult to understand one another when we are the same species and we speak the same language. But that being said, it is our job as handlers and as teammates to our dogs to do all that we can to really be able to understand what they are saying. And really what that means is understanding a dog's language and not just trying to interpret it through a human lens, if that makes sense. And one of the beauties about Scent Work is that in order for us to really be successful, we kind of have to do that, right? Whereas in other types of dog training or dog sports, we can kind of put a human spin on everything and kind of get by because we can see there's the agility obstacle here is sit that I need for obedience here is they're coming to me for basic manners, whatever.

(03:04):
There are tangible outcomes that we are able to really visually see. Whereas with Scent Work, we can't see the odor. So we may know where the height is, let's say when we're training, but we don't know what the odor is actually doing. We are literally relying on the dog in order to tell us. We may have some guesses, but we're relying on them to tell us what actually the odor is doing and what information they're using in order to solve the puzzle. Now, this can also bite us in the butt because it means that we have to rely on the dog to give us the information to tell us how they're working out the puzzle. And if we are inserting ourselves too much into that, if we're using too much of our big human brain, if we're trying to get ahead of the dog, be like, oh, well no, that odor couldn't possibly be doing that, that's just silly.

(03:57):
Or No, there couldn't possibly be a hide there, or No, you should be working it this way, or whatever the case may be. That's when it can really bite us in the butt. The dog is like, well, that was a nice try, but I'm telling you it's doing this. So again, I completely empathize with everyone who's like, oh, reading my dog is so hard, and that's why I want the train final response. It's why I want Alert behavior so that I know for certain that I am right, that I'm not going to get that no at a trial. Or even if let's say I'm not trialing, I'm not going to get a no from my instructor or my friend, my family member, whoever set this damn hide that I don't know where it is, they're not going to say no, even if there isn't a trial or a title or a cue attached to it, hearing no can be really stressful for all of us.

(04:49):
I am no exception. So I get it. I really, really, really do. But the problem is, is that when we're only looking for that tiny little thing, this behavior alone, absent all the other stuff, all the other really beautiful communication our dog is giving us, we're not getting the full picture. We're putting a very human spin on it. And the dog may also not understand why we weren't listening to 98% of the conversation. And then suddenly we come alive when it looks like they're going to give us an Alert behavior and they're like, okay, well maybe we're not doing Scent Work. I was just telling you all this really important information. You completely ignored me. So maybe I'm just supposed to sit as an example.

(05:38):
So what are some of the ways that we can do this where it doesn't seem so abstract, so it doesn't seem as though this is pulling teeth as you're ripping your hair out of your head. It's just so painful, and I'm not going to break any new ground here. You've probably heard all this stuff before, but I just want to reaffirm some of the things that can really help, and I just want to preface this by saying that I took for granted these things with my background with horses. So lemme just go on a little bit of a tangent. Hang in there. I swear I'll swing back. So my first career was working with horses and I started off very, very young. I think I started when I was like 11, maybe not even. I think I'm nine, whatever. It doesn't matter. I was a child and I was passionate about horses.

(06:29):
Horses was my whole life up until that point and not being ever near a real horse, just like I was obsessed with them. And then my parents were like, okay, fine. We're going to try to figure out how we're going to pay for this. So we're going to get to lessons. And the only way to do that was to have me work at the barn so that basically I could work off some of the costs, blah, blah, blah. The point being tiny little child, working at a barn very much under the table around these giant animals that I was absolutely just over the moon for, which meant that every waking moment that I had an opportunity, I was watching them just ogling over them, just watching every little thing that they would do. And I would groom these horses just obsessively. I was constantly in their presence.

(07:21):
And as I grew up and as I progressed throughout this career, I was then moving up the ranks. So I wasn't just mucking out stalls, I was now managing stables and stuff like this, and still a lot of physical labor, which is part of the reason why my body is so broken. But the point being is that I would be there from about six 30 in the morning until about six o'clock at night. And a lot of the time when all the real heavy duty labor was done in big segments of time, I would still be out where the horses were. And quite literally just watching them and I would watch how they would twitch their skin, I would watch the movement of their ears. I would listen to how they breathed. I would watch how they move their feet, these very clear conversations they were having with each other.

(08:15):
And then I would play with it and I would be like, oh, well, what if I did something? What if I did this? What if I did that? And then they would be like, oh, that human is trying to talk horse. That's so silly. But we'll play along. And then being inside the herd, probably the largest number of groups of horses I had where I was working and any one run out was maybe six, but they weren't small. We had drafts and whatever else. And being able to be in the midst of them and be able to run and play and do grooming circles and just all kinds of fun stuff. What I'm trying to get at is over the course, I was involved with horses for 12 years, 13 years, something like that. Decade more is that was the vast majority of my time was spent by just watching and watching, trying to imitate, quite frankly, trial and error.

(09:15):
But it made it so that I really did understand each of them individually, that we were able to communicate to one another. I could listen to the whispers where they were, maybe they wanted to play because horses do like to play. Maybe they were concerned, maybe they were upset, maybe some other horse made them upset. Maybe there was a person, they're like, that person did things to me before and I don't like them. No problem. I will make sure that they leave you alone. Whatever the case may be. I'm trying to get at is that was hours and hours and hours probably years worth if you were to put it all together of just watching, watching and letting them tell me what they were saying. It wasn't the other way around. Yes, I was trying to mimic and whatever else, but it was with an ear and an eye for trying to understand, okay, so you blew out your nose, why your tail went up, why you changed your pace and you're lifting up your knees more, why you stomped your foot, how come you curled your neck?

(10:20):
What does that mean? I hope I'm making sense here. Because it was with this complete sense of curiosity and trying to let them know, I have no idea what that means. Can you tell me? And me trying to experiment and then be like, I don't know why you're doing that. You look so stupid right now. You poor little person. But they were very patient and very welcoming to me with these weird little games that we would play. My point in telling any of this, this has nothing to do with not work, is that I take for granted that that's kind of my baseline. So when I then made the transition, there was a little time in between where I was doing paralegal stuff, but I made the transition into dog training professionally. It was easier for me to be able to perceive what the dogs were doing because it was just so natural to me to just watch the dog.

(11:21):
What are they trying to say? I again had all this history understanding that the horses were talking all of the time, and I could see where there were disconnects where they'd be trying to work with, let's say the vet or the farrier or even their owner or somebody else who didn't understand the conversation. And the horse would be like, look, I'm happy to do whatever, but you got to let me know it's safe. Or hey, that hurts, or Hey, this is scary, or, oh, I'm really excited to do this, but what about my friend? Or whatever. When you ignore all that stuff, when they're just whispers, well, then they get louder. And with horses when they get louder, that's where you get the bolting and get the rearing and the bucking and all this other stuff that's not necessary. And it's the same thing with the dogs where they can get so frustrated, I told you about whatever it is, 15 times over, why won't you listen to me? And for some dogs, that means that they'll kind of shrink in words where they just won't try to communicate the point and their other dogs will go the other way and be like, I am going to really let you know when I think about this.

(12:31):
So what does any of this have to do with trying to understand our dogs? Quite honestly, again, I'm not covering any new ground here. I'm just trying to give you maybe a different sense of why it's important. Spending time watching your dog is how you're going to get better at this. There is no magic pill, there's no magic webinar that I can offer you. There are things that can help you see what to look for. There are things that you can hear from people and say, ah, I had no idea to even look for that. That can be very enlightening, and I absolutely encourage you to take as many things as you can in order to do that, but it is just going to take time for you to be able to experience that firsthand so you can actually see your dog, but without the human lens in front of it, if that makes sense.

(13:27):
To truly just see here is your dog who is not overly verbal. It's not that they don't vocalize, they do. And those of my friends who have Dobermans, were like, my dog is very vocal. Yes, that is true, but the primary way that they communicate is not vocally. It's with all their body language. So we should be taking the time to understand what that stuff is, and that's just like day-to-day life. And then on top of that, we can then see it, okay, so now my dog, I understand what they're saying kind of inside, right? Then I want to see what they're like outside. Maybe they're just in my backyard. What do they look like when they're just puttering around? What do they look like when they see a swirl? What do they look like when they're getting ready to pee? What do they look like when maybe they get startled by something, when they hear something off in the distance?

(14:18):
Maybe when they smell something off in the distance, when they actually want attention from me when they're trying to see what am I doing? There's so many possibilities because again, all this stuff is happening literally all the time, sometimes a hundred times in one little outing. There's lots of opportunity for us to be able to pinpoint this is what this looks like in this context. And then on top of that, we can start doing some searches and video, video, video, video. I know that we say this all the time now as professionals, like, oh, video is such a great tool, but I don't know if we explain why, and that's why I spent all that time talking about the horses is that is you being able to stand out there and watch the horses for 10 plus years in a very concentrated place in the comfort of your own home, maybe eating some ice cream or something.

(15:15):
You can rewatch those videos multiple times. You can upload them up onto YouTube, you can slow them down, you can speed them up. I love the way that Tony Gravley talks about this, about the way that it can help to actually watch it really fast, and then when you're watching it in real time, it seems as though it's in slowmo. But then I also like the way the Khara just talked about this and her Who's Watching Who webinar about the real benefits of slowing it down because there are so many little things that our dogs do that we can then really grasp on to be like, Ooh, that was interesting. Why did you do that? And that's the key is we can ask why did that happen and try to put it all together, but again, just to make sure that you don't feel like I'm wasting your time.

(16:06):
What was all the horse stuff about is it took me so much longer, and again, I love all the time that I had with them, but if I had videoed those outings where I was just out there watching and then was able to re-review them when I got back home like you all can do thanks to smartphones, I would have been so much far improved as a horse person. It almost boggles my mind to think of how much deeper of connection I could have had with those animals simply because of reps, simply because of the amount of time of watching and also being able to manipulate, slowing it down, speeding it up, zooming in, all this stuff, I cannot emphasize enough how powerful that is, and all of you have this in your fingertips right now, which it should be really exciting. So a thing such as reading our dogs, being able to interpret what they're telling us in a search so we can constantly call Alert, which causes so much anxiety in many of us.

(17:16):
Again, I have felt this as well. I don't like being told no. We should really be flipping that on its head and saying, you know what? I have these tools available to me. I have the absolute creature who can tell me everything. They are my teacher and I have access to them 24/7. I have this tool, this smartphone as an example. I can video as they're having a conversation with me, and I can watch that no less than five times, let's say two times regular speed, one time fast, one time slow, and another time regular speed. Again, looking for all of the things and trying to understand what they mean without just putting a human spin on it. Like Michael McManus really tries to express the importance of being an mythologist as opposed to someone who's just putting on human emotions onto something, speaking more ecologically.

(18:17):
You are literally saying, the tail is doing this. The foot is doing this, the mouth is doing this. You are observing and then narrating what that is. Whereas I think that my dog is feeling whatever. It's not that doing the latter is bad, it's not. But starting with just observation first can be so incredibly helpful so that you don't talk yourself into misinterpreting what it is that the dog was trying to tell you in the first place. So all of this, what I'm trying to get at is that everyone who's involved in Scent Work, in my opinion, when we're talking about our skills as handlers, this should be number one focus of I need to be able to understand my dog, but in all contexts of what we're doing, like, oh, what the hell does that mean? It's not just in relation to the hide.

(19:19):
It's in relation to the whole thing. When you're getting ready, what does your dog say when you are bringing them to the start line, what does your dog say when you release them to search? What does the dog say as they're tackling the search? What does the dog say? When the dog finds a hide? What does the dog say? When you are done with that hide, you're moving on to the next. What does the dog say when you are wrapping up all the hides that you found? What does a dog say when you're cleaning everything up and you're done with your session? What does a dog say? We need to understand these things because that's how we're able to not just call "Alert", but when we're training and practicing, we can say, you know what? My dog is trying really hard and they aren't able to solve this.

(20:08):
I need to do something as a trainer in this moment right now, whatever that decision is going to be, whether it be quitting, whether it be helping, whether it be waiting, but I can't even make those decisions if I don't know that's what my dog is saying, or my dog is killing it. They're knocking it out of the park and they're almost knocking it out of the park a little bit too much where I don't think that I've really pushed the envelope at all recently within however long. Okay, so now I need to make an adjustment for the next time, or My dog really isn't this interested in this session. That's weird. They usually really like doing this. Why is that? Am I making any sense here? Is that truly understanding what your dog says isn't just about, "Hey, yo, you with the thumbs hides here, give me cookie."

(21:00):
That's not the only part of communication that we should care about. We want to be able to tell when our dog is saying, did you notice that sound way off wear? That was really concerning. We be concerned about that. We should be able to understand as what they're saying instead of misinterpreting as, oh, my dog is just being stubborn. Those are not the same. Those are very, very different. Or my dog be like, oh, this is just so exciting. I was stuck inside the crate all day and woo, we should be able to tell the difference between that and Oh, my dog is really chasing odor. Those are not the same. Those are not the same at all. So in order to be a teammate, but at the same point, again, a teacher, we have to understand the little creature that we're working with and what they're telling us, because otherwise this isn't going to work.

(21:56):
So I'm going to strongly encourage that. You check out Khara's webinar. She just did it for us recently and it was really, really good. Lots of videos about how you're able to figure out all the different zones of the body where the dog can offer changes of behavior as they are working through a space and they're getting toward a hide. Really encourage you guys to check that out. But additionally, there are lots of other resources all over the place where you'd be able to watch many dogs do searching. Highly, highly, highly recommend that too. But again, the biggest thing that you can do, quite honestly, the cheat code I guess you could say, is to video your dog as they're just doing stuff. Nothing to do with Scent Work work. They're in the house, they're in the backyard, they're on a walk, whatever video, and watch it and truly watch it and do it with the idea of what is it that my dog is saying and ask, why did your tail go up?

(22:53):
Why did your tail go down? Why did your foot go up? Why did your foot go down? Why did your mouth open? Why is it closed? Look, get really granular with this stuff because all of it matters, and if it helps, you can think of it from a human perspective that if you were living with someone or you were friends with someone, you're going out with someone, you're at some social event with somebody. Not everything that we do is verbal. Yes, we are very verbal. As you can tell, we're 23 plus minutes into this, but you can tell there's all kinds of different inflection in my tone. So there's lots of information provided with how I speak, but that's also like if you saw me, which we do this on purpose that you don't, because I hate being on camera. I'm moving my arms a lot.

(23:43):
I'm expressing myself with my eyes, my eyebrows, and I'm moving my shoulders. There's a lot of emoting that I'm doing even just as I'm recording this podcast. But if you were standing in front of someone and they said, I really like you, but they could say that glaring at you, like boring a hole in your face with a really sinister smile and gritting their teeth, and you'd be like, wow, you're kind of psycho. Nevermind. Bye. Or they could be kind of looking away and rounding their shoulders and kind of smiling, kind of meekly and blushing. Those are two completely different pieces of information. That's what I mean is that being social creatures ourselves, we innately understand really complex packages of information when it comes to social communication. That's what our dogs are doing too. So we owe it to them to up our level of understanding so we can receive that real complex package and we can perceive it properly.

(24:49):
So it doesn't turn into the miscommunication of the text of, oh, I'm so mad at you. Be like, I don't know why you're mad at me. I was just saying hi. Be like, oh, well, I completely read it differently, but as always, I want to hear from all of you. Does any of this help? You're like, no. All you're telling me to do is video and watch my dog. Yes, that is a very big part of it. Also, when you are in classes, if you have an opportunity, ideally, all the dogs are waiting in crates or somewhere else, so you guys, they can rest when they're not running and you can watch the other dogs run. It's so important. You want to be able to watch as many dogs as possible. It's gold. This is going to be the key. But also cultivating interest with your fellow classmates or with your practice friends so that all of you can just review videos together, can talk about what you saw and let it be framed in the sense of what is the dog saying and why are they saying it?

(25:53):
Why did they do that? What could that possibly mean? And don't be so definitive with it because again, for anyone who has any kind of behavior background that a tongue flick can mean about 15 different things, yes, they flick their tongue. How do they flick their tongue and what matter do they flick their tongue? How far was the tongue outside of their little mouth? When did they do it? How did they do it? What ferocity did they do it? What else was going on with their face and their body? Again, that's why I say it's a complex package. There are absolutely contextual things that matter, but the important piece is being curious about all this stuff. Understanding your dog is absolutely an individual that there can be generalities, but your dog has their own way of doing things just like you do, just like I do.

(26:45):
I don't speak everybody else, as I'm sure you're well aware, but that doesn't mean that you can't understand what I'm saying. So taking the time to just pause and be like, oh, I want to do well in class. I want to do well when I'm practicing. I want to do well when I'm competing and I want to be right when I call Alert, and I totally get it. It's not that trained final responses or alerts are bad. They're not, but they're only a tiny, itty bitty part of the picture. And honestly, if you're able to understand the other 98% of the thing that your dog told you, you may not even need it. So if we could build up those skill sets for you so that you could understand better what your dog is saying, you would be a much better footing. And I think, again, maybe this is me being weird, but it's fun.

(27:44):
It's fun being able to just watch a dog and try to understand what they're saying. And I tend to think that dogs have lots of sense of humor. I have lots of different emotions, and I absolutely anthropomorphize. I don't deny it. My tiny terrier has a little voice. But to me, that's the interesting part because at its core, Scent Work is a way for us to tap into what our dogs are experiencing in a way that we as people never, ever can. So that is magical all within itself. So I hope that you take something away from this as far as the importance of allowing our dogs to really teach us so that we can better understand what they're saying, why they're saying it, and just be curious about the whole thing. That should be the fun part. But as always, I'd love to hear from you.

(28:35):
We've posted this episode up on our website is social media. You're more than welcome to add any questions or comments you have there. We are very excited to be speaking with lots of other people, so you don't have to hear me just pontificate about things. So definitely make sure that certain that you stay tuned, if there's a particular individual you'd like for me to speak to or have a conversation with, let me know. I'm always happy to talk to them. As I mentioned, Khara Schuetzner just put together an excellent webinar for us who's watching, who all about changes of behavior. I'll make sure there's a link for that inside of the podcast episode description as well as we're posted on our website and our social media. So definitely make sure you check that out as well. If there are other topics that you guys would like for us to cover for our online training, yes, we have an enormous library.

(29:21):
It's so big we cover so much, but I know because we're almost doing this for 10 years now, that's nuts, is that there's always more that we can do. So if there's a particular thing like, oh, I really wish you guys would talk about blah, blah, blah, let me know. I will then reach out to our incredibly talented instructors and get that all put together for you. But as always, thank you so very much for all of your support and for listening to the podcast. We really do appreciate it. Please give a cookie to your puppy for me. Happy training. We look forward to seeing you soon.