Ep. 143: Smelly Dog Club with Adam Skandarani

In this episode, we have the privilege of speaking with Adam Skandarani about their new monthly membership program, Smelly Dog Club. Leveraging their behavioral background, Adam has designed this coaching program to help those teams who are experiencing nagging issues in their searches, whether when training or at trial.

Adam discusses how the root causes may not be as simple as they seem. Is your dog truly goofing off and being distracted in the search or is something else going on? Do you need to lean into training more distractors and proofing exercises, or could there be another culprit at work? Applicable for all dogs, whether they have behavioral challenges or not, this discussion will highlight the importance of looking clearly at what is happening to design an appropriate solution.

Speakers:

• Adam Skandarani
• Dianna L. Santos

RECOMMENDED RESOURCES

• Let's Chat: Smelly Dog Club Livestream
• Terrific Teamwork: Searches Built on Trust Webinar
• Intro to Control Unleashed Webinar
• Control Unleashed and Scent Work: Crazy Calm Start Lines Webinar
  
• Work directly with Adam: Flash of Brillance Behavior Consulting

TRANSCRIPT

Dianna L. Santos (00:01):
Welcome to the All About Scent Work Podcast. In this podcast, we talk about all things Scent Work that can include training tips, a behind scenes look at what your instructor or trial official is going through and much more. In this episode, I have the distinct privilege of speaking to Adam Skandarani all about their Smelly Dog Club program, very exciting stuff. So before we start diving into the episode itself, let me do a very quick introduction of myself. My name is Dianna Santos. I'm the Owner and Lead Instructor of Scetn Work University. This is an online dog training platform where we provide online courses, webinars, seminars, virtual events, live streams, ebooks, video reviews, Zoom consultations, free training tips, a regularly updated blog, the All About Scent Work Podcast, and so much more, all focused on Scent Work. So no matter where you are in your sniffing journey, you're just getting started, you're looking to develop some more advanced skills, you're interested in trialing, or you're competing even at the upper levels of competition, we likely have a training solution for you.

(01:02):
So now that you know a little bit more about me, let's dive into the episode itself. So in this episode, I have the distinct privilege of speaking to Anam Skandarani, all about their Smelly Dog Club program. Let's take a listen to that conversation. So thank you so very much for joining us for our podcast today. Thrilled to be having this conversation with you. Could you just do a really quick favor for our listeners? Can you just give a quick introduction of yourself please?

Adam Skandarani (01:28):
Absolutely. My name is Adam Skandarani. My pronouns are they/them, and I am a certified trainer, both as a Certified Control Unleashed Instructor, as well as a KPA Certified Training Partner.

Dianna L. Santos (01:43):
Perfect. So you had reached out to me a little while ago, and first of all, you let me know that you were inside the Certified Nose Work Instructor Program. I was like, "Oh, that's very exciting." And then you also wanted to let me know about this new program that you're starting up called the Smelly Dog Club. So what is that?

Adam Skandarani (02:02):
Okay. So it is my new membership style program that is geared towards our Nose Work competitors, our Nose Work teams who are struggling with typical and a typical challenges in their searching. So this could look something as common as crittering in an exterior search or as

(02:33):
Uncommon as ... Well, I suppose it's still pretty common, but not as common. As snatching at hides in training, that's less common in trialing since the hides are usually pretty well secured and hidden away. So that kind of manages that for them in trials. But there are dogs who will snatch out hides in training that are visible or available for that. And so those types of problems and everything in between that you can think of, we can tinker through and work on. Box smashing, not so much that. I know there are a lot of trainers and set work trainers and coaches who handle that sort of thing really, really successfully. And I would love to allow them to continue to do that, but more of the unique behavioral challenges that we see. So the things that might not be attributed to your usual typical behaviors that we see.

Dianna L. Santos (03:34):
Okay. And what made you want to start this? So maybe it helps people to understand a little bit as far as your own journey in Nose Work and where the passion comes from, because a lot of people who do know you recognize your background in behavior. So that's why I was so tickled pink. I'm like, "And you're now formally going to be doing Nose Work training too." So if you could just talk a little bit about that, just so that people have a better appreciation of where you're coming at this from.

Adam Skandarani (04:03):
Absolutely. The inspiration for this project was sparked by my sweet and spicy heart dog, Flash Gordon, who was a Boxer who presented me with many, many, many challenges throughout his life. And that is not to say that he was not the most wonderful, incredible, fantastic dog to ever have blessed my household, but also he was a difficult dog from the very beginning and for the majority of his life. And so he challenged me with his behaviors. He was very reactive, he was very exuberant and he was very ... He marched to the beat of his own drum, if you will. And that was often a tune that was not matching my own rhythm, but I know I don't have a lot of rhythm, but he and I, we just could not get on the same page dance-wise. And it started out, I remember one of our first nose work events was, he was nine months old, I think, at the time.

(05:19):
And we attended a sniff through being put on for a judge's seminar for USCSS in Massachusetts when it was first coming to the state. And he scared everyone there. And people tell me to this day how wonderful they think of a job that I've done with him because he had turned into a different dog than the dog they knew back then when he was nine months old. And he was barking and lunging and he could not focus on odor. He knew odor very well. He understood the picture. He recognized his job. He just couldn't do it. And at the time, I could not give a reason why. And in hindsight, learning more about behavior, learning more about adolescence and understanding about

(06:12):
Behavior in general, I understood that he was just being overfaced because he was being challenged from a social pressure aspect. He was being challenged from an environmental pressure aspect. And he was also being pressured from his own body, which I didn't know was going on at the time, but he had a lot of internal things going on medically that were affecting his behavior as well. So there was a lot going on that, of course, naturally now that I know all of this, of course he couldn't do the thing. And I made it my life's mission to understand him because naturally I loved him and I wanted everybody to see the magical dog that he actually was. So I made it my mission to help him. And so I learned a lot about behavior. I learned about how we can affect behavior in positive ways.

(07:13):
I went beyond the clicker training positive reinforcement route with him. I learned about welfare. I learned about health. I learned about emotional and physical wellbeing and so much more in between. And I was really able to help him feel comfortable in his own skin to the point where he could do that stuff eventually. It took us four tries to get his NW1 a few years after that. I think he was, if I am doing my math correct, three, almost four years old when he got his NW1 and it was rough on him. He struggled in exteriors, which was our first search of the day of the trial where he actually titled in because there were the judge and the stewards off to the side under an easy up because it was pouring rain and he wanted to know why these people were watching him.

(08:20):
And I remember going, "Hey buddy, your task is over here." And at that point, he had gained more experience playing the game of nose work. He had gained more reinforcement history for actually hunting out those novel odors that we put out there for them in trials and in training in this game. And he learned a lot more to trust me and that I would keep him safe in those situations. And he was able to let go of the thought of the people watching him for just long enough to find that one hide. And then he was like, "No, I need to watch them again until I was able to get him out of the search area." And fast forward a few years to his final elite run where he earned his championship. First search of the day again, it was an exterior search. There were, I think, five hides.

(09:32):
He found them all. That's what I remember. I think it was five hides. And it was a campground and there were construction workers working on a cabin nearby the search area. They were not being loud or disruptive or anything, but when you have a dog like Flash Gordon, everything is a distraction. And so he nailed one or two hides and then he noticed them and he just planted his feet and looked at them and got all up on his tippy toes, took this real big breath, getting ready to bark his little head off at them. And all I had to do was touch the handle of his harness and be like, "Hey buddy, that's not what we're doing right

(10:19):
Now." And he was able to visibly relax. You could see him come down from his tippy toes back onto his full feet and he exhaled that big breath he took in without barking and he put his nose back down to work and he was able to nail a hide that he had to kind of be facing where those workers were in order to find, and he nailed it and he was able to find it. And then as soon as he found it and was rewarded for it, he was like, "No, but I really want to bark at them." And I said, "No, you really, really shouldn't. I know there are more out here. I can tell by your body language that there are more hides out here. So how about we play the game?" And he said, "Okay, fine." And he was able to, at that point, completely and totally let go of the thought of those construction workers on that nearby cabin.

(11:15):
And I know it was years in between these two events, and I know it was a lot of work and effort in between on my end and on Flash's end, but talking about them side by side, I've got goosebumps because of the difference between what he was able to give me when he was a young dog just out of adolescence, just learning to appreciate the value of Nose Work. And then as an eight and a half year old dog who was seasoned and well on his way to his Elite Championship.

Dianna L. Santos (11:54):
And that's an amazing, and I want to thank you very much for sharing everything about Flash and your journey because I think it highlights for people many things. First of all, that the stark contrast between the beginning and where you ended up is something to celebrate. And it absolutely took a ton of work and a ton of time on both of your parts, but it also meant that you had to appreciate all those different layers to the issue that was going on, that this wasn't just simply, "Oh, he's being a jerk." It was, there's lots of really serious stuff going on for him and then you being able to appreciate that and develop all your skills so that you could support him, so that you could be able to develop that kind of relationship and communication with him to say, "Hey, buddy." And for him to go, "Yeah, okay, you got me.

(12:47):
" As opposed to, "Don't look at the people in the sky, please find a hide, that whole thing." So that's why it's so exciting that you're starting up this new program because of the background that you have, the transformation that you've gone through because of these experiences that you've had and the appreciation that you have for how complex it is, that it will be able to help other dog owners who may be struggling, maybe not with very severe behavior issues at all, but they may be hitting kind of a wall in their searches and they don't know why. And it could very well be any plethora of things that they never even considered because they're so focused on the hide. So can you talk a little bit about that as far as what you've been experiencing so far as maybe talking with your clients or just putting together the program as far as what you're anticipating for people to experience when they're going through it?

Adam Skandarani (13:45):
Absolutely. Yeah. I'm going to just start off with a little something that you sparked about Flash, and then I'll get into talking about my clients for a second, because part of Flash's journey was we had to figure out a very common issue, and that was slick floors, slick gym floors, and we all know how in the NW1 through three levels, containers really like to be on slick gym floors. And so that was actually the reason why we needed to take the NW1 test a bunch of times was because he just could not get over the slick floors. During our period of time that we were working on this and tinkering on this problem, I came to discover that it wasn't a slick floor problem after all, but rather a shiny floor problem.

(14:44):
And that's when I realized that he had some depth perception issues. And I figured this out by putting some cookie sheets in a hallway in my house where I was asking him to walk back and forth on these surfaces that kind of mimicked the feel of these slick floors, and he was having no problem going over them. And then the sun was going down and this hallway had no windows. And so I had to turn on the light up above to kind of help me see what I was doing and try and figure out what I was seeing from Flash. And as soon as those lights came on and began reflecting off the cookie sheets, he started avoiding them.

Dianna L. Santos (15:24):
Yep.

Adam Skandarani (15:25):
Yep. He started avoiding them. I was like, oh, turned off the lights. He started walking on them all over again. Well, now if he were an easier dog for us to handle in a medical setting, I probably would've taken him to an ophthalmologist or a specialist to kind of figure out exactly what was going on with his eyes. But for now, my suspicion is that it was a depth perception issue that causes what is commonly known in agility as early takeoff syndrome, which can sometimes ... The depth perception can mess with the dog's vision and perception of where the jumps are or how high they are. And so they often take off early in knock bars with flash and agility, it was he would avoid the jumps unless they were under a certain height and then he felt comfortable taking them.

(16:18):
And so that's how that manifested in Nose Work was he would avoid the shiny floors. And over time and with patience and with love and with less training and more just listening to him, I was able to really help him work through those issues until gym floors became a thing of the past for him. I remember we had a couple of elite trials where there were searches in gyms where he was just like, he would walk in, he would take one look at the floors, and then he would be like, "All right, we got this. Let's go. "

Dianna L. Santos (17:00):
I'm just going to say that's amazing that you were able to recognize that. And I love the way that you were able to break it down because that's a perfect example of people do struggle with this and they very well may think that it's something that it absolutely is not. And the hard part is that we can't really ask the dog the question in a way that can make sense to us as people. We have to do some detective work and have the dog tell us in a way that makes sense for them. And that's very, very, very hard. So I love the way that you were describing that because it's a very good example for how complicated some of this stuff can be and that in Nose Work in particular, it's very easy for us to kind of throw around, "Oh, well, crittering as an example." Well, are they crittering or is it just placement behavior?

(17:50):
Is it something else? Exactly. So did you want to talk a little bit about how all of this came together for you when you're trying to put together this program? Because again, I'm very, very excited about this because this is exactly what the community needs. I

Adam Skandarani (18:05):
Think so. Actually, I've been getting a lot of inquiries lately for people who need some help with these types of nitpicky things that they want to see. I got an inquiry about a dog that likes to roll in the middle of his searches, and it doesn't matter what flooring he's on, what environment he's in, if it's training or trialing, they can make hide nor hair of it. They cannot figure out a pattern to it. And after watching a few videos, I was able to determine a little bit of a pattern that I was seeing. And one of my clients who is actually a behavior client, she came to me for help with her adolescent dog's fear of the world. She's got fear of sudden environmental contrast. She's dog reactive on leash. She is reactive to people as well. And unfortunately, even the most simplest of pattern games broke this dog.

(19:06):
She no longer could trust games like Give Me A Break, which is a super simple pattern game that is built to allow agency and give the dog choice in whether or not they want to opt in to whatever their handler is doing in that moment, even if it is just coming and looking at their owner, something so simple as that, that broke this dog. And so we went even further and started doing nose work, focusing on Nose Work as a skill to help her navigate her environments and navigate her triggers in conjunction with working with vets to source suspected pain in this dog. And so we have discovered that there is in fact pain, musculoskeletal pain in this dog and she's being treated for it because it's non-specific. We can't seem to find its source, but we do know that there is pain due to pain med trials giving us positive outcomes.

(20:12):
And so we know it's working, so we're sticking with it. And then we are tinkering with diagnostics when we can and all of that kind of stuff. But Nose Work really helped her blossom. She's searching for food and boxes and she started out searching for food and boxes on her terrace and then in her side yard, and then in very familiar locations where she likes to go and walk in the mornings, and then in newer locations. And it started out with one or two, maybe, that's a lie, three or four boxes super close to her car so that she could be super successful and not have to venture too far away from her little safety zone in order to be successful. And now they are spread out all over the place where she has to walk several feet away from her car, her safety zone, to be able to even start looking for food and boxes.

(21:13):
And she is starting to show me beautiful behavior changes that let me know that she is following her nose to the next hide rather than using her eyes to go, "Is it in this box? Is it in this box? Is it in this box?" And to be clear, there is absolutely nothing wrong with her using her eyes to gauge whether it is in ... I mean, that's the whole reason we are using the boxes as context clues, but knowing that she is in her nose rather than in her eyes tells me that she's able to kind of shut out her environment a little bit in order to play the game. She's beginning to trust in the framework of the game and trust that her handler and owner is going to keep her safe in those moments.

Dianna L. Santos (22:00):
Yes. And that's amazing. And that's exactly why when you contacted me about this program, I was like, "Yes, please." Is that it's offering this kind of structure for people who can have an array of issues that it's not that nose work is a magic pill, it's not, but it can provide a avenue to reach the dog, particularly with this last case study that you were talking about, where there may be all these other attempts were made and the dog is getting really super suspicious about all of it. They're like, "There is something amuck. There will be terrible things that are going to happen at some point. I'm onto you. " And if we're able to allow the dog to express themselves with a way of using their instincts that is so naturally dog, as opposed to us trying to use behavior modification, trying to help them, "Well, you have this emotion, but maybe you have this other emotion, all the other stuff." If we can just say, "Here's this innate instinct that you have.

(23:04):
Here's this wonderful sense of smell, that's all you got to do, and there's no strings attached, there's nothing on the other side of this, just do that. " And the dog goes, "Oh, that's interesting." That is an amazingly empowering thing. So I love the fact that you are offering this and the skillsets that you're going to be providing for the handlers where they can better appreciate, like with the examples that you've given, the complexity and the depth of complexity that the dogs are presenting, that it's not just that the dog is rolling around. There's a reason for it, right? They're not just doing it just because there's something is happening. The dog who is crittering, they're not just critting just because. There's a reason why the dog is scratching at the start line, the whole litany of things that again, particularly when it comes to nose with people, when they are doing training or especially trial, they tend to consistently try to assign these really simple, "We just need to do more proofing or they're just so distracted or whatever." It's like, hang on.

(24:13):
There may be some other stuff going on, particularly the medical stuff that your dog may be in pain, your dog may not feel well, there could be something else going on. So I love the fact that you're offering this. Can you talk a little bit about how it is that you came to appreciate how this would be helpful for just the whole swath of the community as opposed to just, okay, you have a background with helping with behavior. Obviously this is very good for behavior clients as well, but when did it dawn you like, "You know what? This actually could be good for anyone who's involved in Nose

Adam Skandarani (24:51):
Work." Well, that's a really, really good question. It dawned on me one day when I realized ... Let me back up. I love group learning. I think there are a lot of benefits to group learning. I think that it is the most beneficial type of learning when presented in the correct environment. I think it increases motivation, it increases enthusiasm, really helps level up the problem solving when we can tinker and have these discussions. So group learning is something I've always believed in. And as someone who does primarily one-on-one coaching, I really struggle with finding a way to incorporate group learning into my model. And I feel like this is a really good way. So when I realized that I'm getting a lot of questions here and there, some by friends who just want to figure it out and tinker and chit-chat about the issues that they're facing or the challenges that they're facing, as well as getting formal inquiries, I'm realizing that all these people can be helped in a session or two.

(26:05):
All these people can be helped with maybe a month or two of coaching. And also, I think so many other people would benefit from watching it.

(26:15):
So that's where I got the idea for working teams and auditors for it. So it'll be kind of like a classroom, but on a monthly membership kind of basis to give people more of an opportunity to take or give as much or as little as they want or can without that pressure of having to get it all done in six weeks or only having six weeks or having to take the class over multiple times and worrying about this or that or the other thing. No, there's no pressure. You can audit, watch, see, ask your questions, or you can be a working team where you can work with me until the problem is solved or until you no longer feel like you need the handholding as much as possible and you feel like you are well on your way to doing it yourself, or you can do it for as little as you feel comfortable doing it for.

(27:14):
You can try it out. If it's not working out for you, then you can move to an audit spot. Or if you're auditing and you're like, "Wow, this is going to be really helpful for me with a working team." As a working team, you can sign up for the wait list for that if I'm full or just sign up for it if I'm not full.

(27:34):
And that's kind of where that idea for that model came in. So it's kind of like a blend between when I used to take on a regular basis like the FDSA classes and then also the membership model that I think is really useful for a business like mine and also a brain like mine.

Dianna L. Santos (27:56):
So when is all of this starting? How can people learn more about it and how would they be able to sign up?

Adam Skandarani (28:03):
Absolutely. So right now I have a wait list running to start hopefully May 1st. So those on the wait list will hear from me no later than mid-April for that May 1st start date and we will just continue on until who knows. Hopefully this will be something that will be really, really successful and wanted by the community. That's what I'm hoping for, but it will continue on until for the foreseeable future. People can find the wait list on my website, which is flashofbrilliancedogs.com. And it's right up there at the top on the header, it will show Smelly Dog Club. Go click on that link and it'll take you to the page where I talk all about it and there are multiple prompts to join the wait list from there. And that will take you to a Google form, which will give you kind of the rundown on how the class and the membership will be run, the types of problems that I can help you with as examples, and then yeah, sign up and you'll hear from me in April.

Dianna L. Santos (29:11):
Perfect. So we'll definitely make certain that we have all of the links for everything that Adam is offering that will be available on the replay page for our podcast. We'll also be making certain that we post this on our social media as well as our website, but we're also very excited. We're going to be hosting, Adam, for a live stream on March 16th. So we'll make certain that there is some information as far as that's concerned as well. Should be able to ask them questions, even more questions about this. Be like, "Ooh, I think this might be good for me. Come join us for the live stream." So just one final thing that I have for you. If someone has some issues and they're like, "You know what? I think I'd like to have some maybe one-on-one help to start with to just see what is it that I'm dealing with right now?

(29:54):
Do I need to maybe do some training before I start the smelly dog club?" Do you offer Do you have any kind of virtual consultations where people be able to contact you directly?

Adam Skandarani (30:04):
I sure do. You can find that easily on my website as well. Again, that's flashofbrilliancedowgs.com. You would hit the contact me book now button. I forget what it is up there on the homepage in the top right corner. And it will send you to a link to book a consultation with me. Or if that feels like too deep of a jump to take right away, you can go to the contact me page and send me a little note with what you want to present me with, and I will get back to you with some options. Probably still a consultation, but yeah, you can definitely book a consultation before you join or I am also open for one-on-one training as well.

Dianna L. Santos (30:53):
Perfect. So we'll make certain that we have all the information available for you because as you guys can see, the wonderful thing about Adam is again, all the history that they have, all of the experiences they're bringing to the table. And again, I'm so excited that they're going to be doing Nose Work too. So you definitely want to make certain that you check out everything they have to offer. And I, myself as a fellow colleague, just going through one of the presentations they did for the Karen Pryor conference. Again, they're very, very good. We've been fortunate to host them for several webinars at Scent Work University focusing on Control Unleashed. So the more that you guys can learn from them, the happier that you will be. Adam, thank you so very much for joining us today.

Adam Skandarani (31:36):
It was my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Dianna L. Santos (31:39):
I want to give a very big thank you to Adam for spending some time to speak to me today all about their Smelly Dog Club program. Again, this is very exciting stuff. I am very thrilled that this type of thing is going to be offered and it's hopefully going to help a lot of handlers and dog and handler teams because there are lots of different reasons why you may be struggling in your searches, whether that be in training or trialing, and it may not actually have to do with Nose Work. It may not have to do with the hide or the hunt itself. You may want to actually address some things completely outside of the context of searching. And that's one of the things that Adam's going to be covering within their program. So I'm very excited about this for lots of reasons. Good stuff. It should be very helpful for people who do have dogs who have some behavioral issues, but really could be helpful for lots where you may have an issue and you're like, "I'm not really sure why we're struggling with this.

(32:36):
" Having another pair of eyes to look at it in this way, I think is going to be really helpful. So again, as I mentioned, we'll make certain we have all the links available to you where we are posting this podcast so you can learn a little bit more about that program. But there's another way that you can do that. Make certain that you join us for the live stream. It's going to be really good stuff. Additionally, we're very excited to be hosting Adam for our live webinar through Scent Work University called Terrific Teamwork: Searches Built on Trust. I definitely encourage you guys to check that out as well. I'll make certain there are links for that webinar of where we're posting this podcast and also on our social media and website. If there's anyone else that you guys are interested in me talking to for our podcast, please let me know.

(33:19):
I'm always happy to talk to them. More people I can talk to in the community, the happier I am. So definitely feel free to reach out. But as always, thank you so very much for listening to the podcast and for all of your support. We really do appreciate it. Please give a cookie to your puppy for me. Happy training. We look forward to seeing you all soon.